This thread discusses the Content article: IN OUR VIEW: Stop ethanol debacle now

Well, ethanol at least is coming from our homeland and not from the middle east.

People in 40 nations are facing food shortages. Hungry people have already rioted for food in Haiti; Mexicans are protesting rising tortilla prices. Disturbances have followed in other countries, including Pakistan, which hardly needs another source of instability.

Just your globalist ruling elite culling the human herd through eugenics, "sustainable development", AND profiting financially from it!

It is time for our politicians to put an end to this ridiculous policy and practice. Ethanol laced gasoline is causing global hunger and it isn't really benefitting the overall energy problems.
Cornell University professor of agriculture David Pimental calculates some very disturbing figures. According to Dr. Pimental, it takes more energy to produce a given amount of ethanol than there is energy available in that ethanol. According to his calculations, producing corn and processing it into 1 gallon of ethanol requires 131,000 BTUs of energy; but 1 gallon of ethanol contains only 77,000 BTUs. So producing ethanol actually creates a net energy loss. And since farmers are using fossil-fuel-powered equipment to plant, maintain and harvest the corn and are using fossil-fuel-powered machinery to process that corn into ethanol and then transport that ethanol to collection points (ethanol can't run in underground pipelines because it picks up damaging impurities), the ethanol industry is actually burning large amounts of gasoline to produce ethanol, and that ethanol contains far less energy than the gasoline they consumed to produce it.
Ethanol
Environmentally, ethanol is a joke.
Top Ten Facts about Ethanol

1. Ethanol is listed as a known human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

2. The cost of Reformulated Gasoline with ethanol will increase 3-6 cents per gallons compared to RFG with MTBE.

3. Spills of pure ethanol or gasoline containing ethanol from leaking storage tanks can create a benzene plume up to 150% larger than a spill from a non-ethanol fuel.

4. Ethanol cannot be shipped by pipeline because of its high affinity for water posing significant distribution costs and hurdles for gasoline blenders.

5. According to a study by Cornell University, for every gallon of ethanol produced, 1.4 gallons of energy is consumed in the process, compared to 0.15 gallons used in the manufacture of gasoline.

6. It takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol (E-85) to drive as many miles as one gallon of gasoline.

7. Every gallon of ethanol removes 53 cents from the Federal Highway Trust Fund because of a special tax break for producers.

8. Ethanol increases the vapor pressure of gasoline by 1 psi. resulting in higher evaporative emissions of Volatile Organic Compounds, while tailpipe emissions of Acetaldehyde increase 150%.

9. Ethanol permeates the hoses and lines of automobile fuel systems resulting in a 50% increase in VOC emissions for pre 1995 cars.

10. Ethanol dissolves oxide scale from the walls of pipes and tanks, subjecting the systems to internal corrosion, which leads to leaks.
Ethanol Facts
Stop the insanity

DITTO!

These subsidies and requirements should never have been passed. It's time that people start making a stink and get Congress to repeal these in short order, or face defeat in November. Start writing letters and making some phone calls, people.

THIS NEWSPAPER ARTICLE IS A JOKE!

STOP THE LIES NOW!

I will admit I work in ethanol.
Therefore, I am an insider.
I also know the facts, and I can separate myth from fact. This article contains only myths and HUGE mis-representations of the truth. I'll stop a step short of calling the paper a liar.

FACTS:
The people who make ethanol do not get subsidies.
The big oil companies get subsidies for using ethanol, since it displaces some of thier own product. It is like asking Pepsi to sell Coke.
Why would Pepsi do that for "free"?

The amount of corn used for ethanol is GREATLY exaggerated. Ethanol only removes the carbohydrate from corn. All the protien and fats ( corn oil ) is used for animal food, and in more and more cases HUMAN FOOD. Some of your Frito-Lay corn chips and cheese puffs come from ethanol plants. A lot of your beef was fed from ethanol plants. Ethanol only uses part of the corn kernal. None is thrown away, all not used for fuel is used FOR FOOD.

A 16oz box of corn flakes, or a 1 pound package of corn tortilla contained 2 cents of corn in 2002. Now, that same box of corn flakes, or pack of tortillas has 6 cents worth of corn.
One bushel, = 54 pounds of corn, and 54 pounds of corn costs about $6.

The price of FOOD has gone up because the price of FUEL ( oil, gasoline, diesel ) has gone up by dollars per gallon, while corn has gone up pennies per pound.

Ethanol ( and I make it ) takes 2.5 to 3.0 gallons of water to make. That water is evaporated to the atmosphere, and makes clouds and falls back to earth as rain. Most of the water used is grey water ( non-potable ) and every drop that is not evaporated is recycled.

Look up U.S.D.A. records. 97% of all corn used in ethanol is grown without irrigation. 97% is grown with rain water. 3% of all corn is grown in semi-arid climates like Colorado or Arizona. In these areas ONLY does it take "1700 gallons of water" to grow corn. It takes 3 gallons ( at most ) to MAKE ethanol after the naturally gown corn is harvested.

Ethanol has fewer BTU per gallon than gasoline.
Gasoline has 112-115,000 btu per gallon. But it takes 1 gallon equivalent of fossil fuel, to refine and put 1 gallon of fossil fuel at your local pump.

It takes 19,000 btu of fossil fuel to make a 76,000 btu gallon of ethanol. I think if you do the math, this is a positive result.

It takes 0.4kwh of electricity in addition to the 19,000 btu to make 1 gallon of ethanol today.

I've seen the blue-prints ( ok CAD, we don't use "blue" prints anymore ) for the new ethanol plants that will come out in 2010.

The new plants will make 1 gallon of ethanol with 6,000 btu of fossil fuel and 0.25kwh of electricity.

( That's the amount of electricity for 10 strands of Xmas lights for 1 hour, or one-eighth the electicity of a hair-dryer. )

Nearly all ethanol plants from 2010 forward will make food and fuel at the same time.

Our world is "carbohydrate rich, and protien poor." Ethanol does not, and will not ever use a pound of protein for production.

Cheers,
-John

Pittakos wrote:
According to Dr. Pimental, it takes more energy to produce a given amount of ethanol than there is energy available in that ethanol. According to his calculations, producing corn and processing it into 1 gallon of ethanol requires 131,000 BTUs of energy; but 1 gallon of ethanol contains only 77,000 BTUs. So producing ethanol actually creates a net energy loss.

That report was done in 1983.
What kind of computer did you use in 1983?
How fast and efficient was it back then?
Computer ability doubles every 2 years.
Ethanol efficiency doubles every 5 years.


Environmentally, ethanol is a joke.
Top Ten Facts about Ethanol

Was that from David Letterman? It is kind of funny!

1. Ethanol is listed as a known human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer.

So is gasoline. Ethanol is drinkable. It is in your beer and wine.

2. The cost of Reformulated Gasoline with ethanol will increase 3-6 cents per gallons compared to RFG with MTBE.

Ethanol has lowered the price of gasoline at the pump by 10 cents to 50 cents per gallon, depending on locale.

3. Spills of pure ethanol or gasoline containing ethanol from leaking storage tanks can create a benzene plume up to 150% larger than a spill from a non-ethanol fuel.

That is just a lie, or just plain false! Pure ethanol is non-toxic and environmentally friendly. It is not considered HAZ-MAT in 35 states, and large spills may be washed down the drain ( or river ) with water, without environmental harm. Once you dilute it with 5 parts water, it is not harmful to wildlife. Try that with Gasoline. Ethanol contains zero benzene.

4. Ethanol cannot be shipped by pipeline because of its high affinity for water posing significant distribution costs and hurdles for gasoline blenders.

FALSE! A major pipeline in Florida will begin shipping ethanol by pipeline this year. All (underground) pipes have water in them. Ethanol is a good cleaner. Ethanol will clean all the water, rust, sludge, you name it, out of the pipes. It's good for the pipes, but it makes the ethanol dirty. Use a clean pipe in the first place, or, discard the first xxxx gallons of ethanol sent down the pipe, and you're good to go!

5. According to a study by Cornell University, for every gallon of ethanol produced, 1.4 gallons of energy is consumed in the process, compared to 0.15 gallons used in the manufacture of gasoline.

FALSE! The "1.4 to 1" study was done in the early 1980's with 1970 data. Today, the D.O.E. states 1 unit of fossil fuel input = 1.34 units of bio-ethanol output. Each 1 btu from fossil fuel ( which includes planting and harvesting and transporting, and distributing ) gives 1.34 btu of ethanol. How come no one quotes the cost of transporting crude oil, or the price of the war in the middle east? Gas really costs $16 a gallon... not counting the lives lost. Not a single U.S. Soldier has died over ethanol.

6. It takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol (E-85) to drive as many miles as one gallon of gasoline.

It's more like 1.25 gallons. I have tried it in a half dozen different makes of car.

7. Every gallon of ethanol removes 53 cents from the Federal Highway Trust Fund because of a special tax break for producers.

PRODUCERS don't get a dime. Big oil gets the money as incentive to get them to "co-operate" with ethanol distributers and producers.

8. Ethanol increases the vapor pressure of gasoline by 1 psi. resulting in higher evaporative emissions of Volatile Organic Compounds, while tailpipe emissions of Acetaldehyde increase 150%.

FALSE! Ethanol has a reid vapor pressure of 2psi.
Gasoline has a reid vapor pressure of 9psi at standard temperature. Alchol vapor pressure increases only slightly on hot summer days. Gasoline vapor pressure increases dramatically on hot summer days. Ethanol does a great job at reducing summer time smog.

E85 has a vapor pressure of about 3 at STP.
E10 has a vapor pressure of about 10 at STP.

9. Ethanol permeates the hoses and lines of automobile fuel systems resulting in a 50% increase in VOC emissions for pre 1995 cars.

FALSE! This is true in pre 1985 cars. Was that a typo? How many pre-1985 cars are on the road? Look at the big picture here please.

10. Ethanol dissolves oxide scale from the walls of pipes and tanks, subjecting the systems to internal corrosion, which leads to leaks.

Only in certain types of tanks, and only to a limited degree. Modern (newer) tanks since about 1990's don't have this problem.


Cheers,
-John