Ilandra wrote:
sorry to say this but there are terrorists in Iraq. Plain pure and simple. If you were a proud american soldier you would go where you were told without qualms.

We have terrorists here, political terrorists.

They are the political neocons, who like the gadiantons, have tried to pull our government down from the inside.

They nearly succeeded.

Ilandra wrote:
sorry to say this but there are terrorists in Iraq. Plain pure and simple. If you were a proud american soldier you would go where you were told without qualms.

I presume if Lt. Calley were your CO and he told you to kill women and children you might have a qualm or two?

Ilandra wrote:
sorry to say this but there are terrorists in Iraq. Plain pure and simple. If you were a proud american soldier you would go where you were told without qualms.

And just how long did you serve?

I feel sorry for your convoluted sense of what is anti-American. Vietnam, for whatever it was has so many things in common with this war in Iraq.

First, no official declaration of war was ever issued. Only Congress has that right and they passed on it. In fact, we have not declared ware since WWII.

Second, it's political.
The Vietnam War was fought like a game of political chess. We were trying to win but at the same time stave off all out war with the USSR and China and the rest of the communist world.
As for the Iraq War, everything from how we started this war to the reason for fighting it have been shifted and changed to fit some political exploits of American emotions.

I don't think anyone knows why we really went into this war except Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and perhaps a handful of other people. The simple fact is they were determined to find a reason, and when they failed to find that reason, they began to make reasons where they shouldn't have. In short, we are there because of a lie.

Then we got there. Our troops did a great job of doing what they were told. Once we achieved our initial purpose, however, no one had a clue as to what to do next. Those who were eventually put in charge were then left high and dry and mistakes were made which led to an insurgency. Then Al-Qaeda got involved after seeing that we were weak.

Finally, Rumsfeld and his posturing attitude were booted and a surge was implemented. This coupled with the sentiment from the Iraqi people wanting to end the occupation and the insurgency led to a more stable environment where better progress could be made toward our eventual total withdrawal.

So you tell me which is more anti-American. The irresponsible handling of the Iraq War in every aspect of how it was conceived to how it has been administered or the overwhelming desire to distance ourselves from such an overwhelming mistake. Which do you think it is? People are anti-War because this is Bush's War, not ours. He and his administration cooked it up. Now we are paying for it.

Now I see the need to finish what we started. The only problem is, I don't think we can fix Iraq the way we want and I think that's the problem with current mentality. We can't make a little America in the Middle East. Instead we should be fixing Iraq how they want it. With that in mind, I would like to see a SOFA agreement that stipulates just what goals the Iraqi government has and just how we can comply with their rights as a sovereign nation. We are no longer the ones in charge over there. We are now guests and we should act like it. And you can bet they want us 100% out of there.

Once you come out of your shell and try to understand the opposition, then maybe you can make a better argument.

While we as veterans may have had to bear to burdens of idiots in office, at least we don't have to bear the same burdens before God. Whether we will see justice in this life, is unlikely, but we may just see it in the next.

lucid_green wrote:
I feel sorry for your convoluted sense of what is anti-American. Vietnam, for whatever it was has so many things in common with this war in Iraq.

First, no official declaration of war was ever issued. Only Congress has that right and they passed on it. In fact, we have not declared ware since WWII.

Second, it's political.
The Vietnam War was fought like a game of political chess. We were trying to win but at the same time stave off all out war with the USSR and China and the rest of the communist world.
As for the Iraq War, everything from how we started this war to the reason for fighting it have been shifted and changed to fit some political exploits of American emotions.

I don't think anyone knows why we really went into this war except Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld and perhaps a handful of other people. The simple fact is they were determined to find a reason, and when they failed to find that reason, they began to make reasons where they shouldn't have. In short, we are there because of a lie.

Then we got there. Our troops did a great job of doing what they were told. Once we achieved our initial purpose, however, no one had a clue as to what to do next. Those who were eventually put in charge were then left high and dry and mistakes were made which led to an insurgency. Then Al-Qaeda got involved after seeing that we were weak.

Finally, Rumsfeld and his posturing attitude were booted and a surge was implemented. This coupled with the sentiment from the Iraqi people wanting to end the occupation and the insurgency led to a more stable environment where better progress could be made toward our eventual total withdrawal.

So you tell me which is more anti-American. The irresponsible handling of the Iraq War in every aspect of how it was conceived to how it has been administered or the overwhelming desire to distance ourselves from such an overwhelming mistake. Which do you think it is? People are anti-War because this is Bush's War, not ours. He and his administration cooked it up. Now we are paying for it.

Now I see the need to finish what we started. The only problem is, I don't think we can fix Iraq the way we want and I think that's the problem with current mentality. We can't make a little America in the Middle East. Instead we should be fixing Iraq how they want it. With that in mind, I would like to see a SOFA agreement that stipulates just what goals the Iraqi government has and just how we can comply with their rights as a sovereign nation. We are no longer the ones in charge over there. We are now guests and we should act like it. And you can bet they want us 100% out of there.

Once you come out of your shell and try to understand the opposition, then maybe you can make a better argument.

While we as veterans may have had to bear to burdens of idiots in office, at least we don't have to bear the same burdens before God. Whether we will see justice in this life, is unlikely, but we may just see it in the next.

Thank you. Well thought out response.

There are terrorists in just about every country, but we don't invade them for the same reason that we didn't invade Iraq in the name of fighting terrorism. Anyone who believes we did has been deceived.

As I recall, we went into Iraq after a non-existent nuclear arsenal.

Now we did find uranium, but none of it came from anywhere in Africa. In fact, the uranium that was there had already been discovered by the UN years ago and was inaccessible to Saddam Hussein. So that point is moot.

The simple fact is, Saddam was not trying to acquire any nuclear weapons, nor did he have access to them. So none of the reasons for going into Iraq have panned out. All of them have been proven false. So now all the reasons for being in Iraq now are different from why we went in there in the first place. Some would rather weather it to save face, but they all belong to the same party.

As for my service in Afghanistan, you have no idea what I went through. You have no idea what I did. You have no idea how I felt, nor how I conducted myself.

My deployment was not voluntary in the sense that I raised my hand and said, "Here am I, send me." I was never given that option, nor would I have volunteered if given the option. Instead I received a call and I answered it. I went against my better judgment and I served. I did not speak out. I did not argue, though many who were there with me did. One guy from the inactive ready reserve did was especially vocal but he had some bad knees and was probably scared, like the rest of us.

My deployment also came at a very bad time in my life. I was planning to get married soon. When the call came I had to plan a wedding in a week. I ended up getting married the day after Christmas and reported 3 days later. You tell me that wasn't hard.

On top of that my original destination was Iraq. I accepted the call believing that I would be serving in Iraq. I was so relieved to find out only weeks before shipping out that we would be going to Afghanistan. So I was lucky. I got to fight were I believed we should have been and that probably lessen a lot of the sting.

I am only so thankful to my wonderful wife who has stood by me through it all. Without her, I doubt this could have been bearable.

Today, my wife and I are still married. We'll be having our 5th anniversary in December and I'm so glad that I made it through that.

Despite everything and the Army's complete bungling of our entire mobilization I did my part and I am proud to say that I have served my country. I've done what most people only preach.

So you can say what you want but like most people whose predatory arguments only stand on half the story, you really have no idea.