Tennerifa wrote:

ohmeowzer wrote:

reglion is a man made thing. we are all different and therefore we have different reglions. i am LDS and have a strong testimony .. ilove the church and what it stands for.my nieces and nephews are jewish and they are great kids ( there are 10 of them ) .they do alot of good for the poor and homeless esp for the poor children. i have not tried to convert them .. why? because i respect them and think they are fine just the way they are.their father is jewish and mother LDS and they were brought up not to drink or smoke and have high moral standards. i am sure Heavenly Father will not care what reglion they are but what kind of lives they lead and their service to others. i love them and feel they will grow up to be a benefit to society. i am proud to be LDS and would never give up my reglion .. i do accept people for who they are and how they treat other people. i have 4 kids and they accept their cousins and their reglion without a bad word to them. everyone has value wether you be baptist, jewish,or an alien with purple and pink polka dots..

What about one of the facets of the three fold mission of the church, namely "proclaiming the gospel?" What about "every member a missionary?" What about "missionary moments" in priesthood meeting? Actually I applaud your attitude, but how do you reconcile it with what the church teaches about gaining converts?

Evangelicals have the same quandry with the Great Commission to witness to the world.

When does fulfilling "every member a missionary" or the Great Commission actually lead to harm than good?

Wren wrote:

Tennerifa wrote:

ohmeowzer wrote:

reglion is a man made thing. we are all different and therefore we have different reglions. i am LDS and have a strong testimony .. ilove the church and what it stands for.my nieces and nephews are jewish and they are great kids ( there are 10 of them ) .they do alot of good for the poor and homeless esp for the poor children. i have not tried to convert them .. why? because i respect them and think they are fine just the way they are.their father is jewish and mother LDS and they were brought up not to drink or smoke and have high moral standards. i am sure Heavenly Father will not care what reglion they are but what kind of lives they lead and their service to others. i love them and feel they will grow up to be a benefit to society. i am proud to be LDS and would never give up my reglion .. i do accept people for who they are and how they treat other people. i have 4 kids and they accept their cousins and their reglion without a bad word to them. everyone has value wether you be baptist, jewish,or an alien with purple and pink polka dots..

What about one of the facets of the three fold mission of the church, namely "proclaiming the gospel?" What about "every member a missionary?" What about "missionary moments" in priesthood meeting? Actually I applaud your attitude, but how do you reconcile it with what the church teaches about gaining converts?

Evangelicals have the same quandry with the Great Commission to witness to the world.

When does fulfilling "every member a missionary" or the Great Commission actually lead to harm than good?

I never said it leads to harm. In replying to omeowzer, who states tht he/she has a strong testimony of the LDS religion, which has as one of its main tenets the conversion of others to that faith, he/she states that they have not tried to convert the Jewish nieces/nephews to the LDS faith. My question is the discrepancy between what the church teaches, and his/her lack of attempts at conversion, given his/her strong testimony of the LDS Church.

Wren wrote:

wrz wrote:

Wren wrote:


However, I do believe where much has been given much is required.


Much was not given. It was earned.


Since you are active LDS (as you have stated elsewhere), I counsel you to follow King Benjamin's advice in Mosiah about taking care of the poor. It is not your duty to question 'why?' but 'to do.'

Yes Wren, you are correct. WRZ is active LDS. He tries to put up a facade of being a disinterested, outside observer, but truth be known, not only does he "sustain the brethren," I strongly suspect that he is building a shrine to Joseph Smith down in his basement, next to the fireplace.

BishopRick wrote:

Tori wrote:

Wren wrote:

Jarek wrote:

Tori wrote:

It begins in Sunbeams. Unfortunately, the children are taught at a very young age that by being Mormon, they are right and everybody else is wrong. The Church their family belongs to is the ONLY TRUE church, all of the others are false. They stand up at the pulpit at 4 yrs. of age and everybody thinks it's so cute as their mother whispers in their ear their testimony they are suppose to say where they proclaim that they "know the church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that Pres. Hinckley is a prophet today", etc, etc. It's a subtle but it's a form of brainwashing teaching elitism at a very young age.

I'm really sorry you feel that way.


The LDS, though they certainly engage in the technique, are far from the only ones who do it.

UPC, Church of Christ, certain SBC congregrations I have known, RC, and others do the same thing in their own way.


I'm sure you are right about that Wren. Maybe it's unavoidable by a religion that believes they have the only truth. It's just when I think about growing up in the LDS Church, IN Provo Utah, I have memories of truly believing at a very young age that it would be better for everyone if they were Mormons. I remember thinking that I was so lucky that I was born in the Mormon Church. My parents didn't teach me to feel better then the very few non-LDS kids that lived here, but I learned it in subtle ways at Primary for sure. It is taught that Mormon's are the only TRUE church, and everybody is wrong. I was told by a MIA Leader that the Catholic Church was evil. I specifically remember that well.

My point being, wouldn't it a nice thing for these kids to stand up at the pulpit on Fast Sunday and say things like, " I love my family, and I want to love other people like Jesus wants us to", instead of "I know the Church is True", which already at that young age, beginning an elitist, better then others, mind set.


VERY well said, Tori. Up front, I will say that I'm sure this happens to a degree in many other religions...but this is Utah Co., and I think we can dialogue and help all of us really see what can be done to bridge this critical gap.

First of all, I think it is helpful to understand a concept of psychology that the best way to ascertain a person's true beliefs, attitudes, and intentions is by the results in their lives...not by what they say. Yes, talk is cheap, and it is also a process to utilize the human denial system. There is constant evidence on this forum of many who proclaim tolerance and equality, then out of the same "mouth" comes bigotry and lobbying to pass laws keeping humans unequal.

Kit Kat talks frequently of her Lutheran good friend...and I believe her sincere claims of respect for her. Because of her approach to some of the crazy debates here, I'm quite certain she has an attitude of respect and unconditional love and acceptance of all people (although she, like me, struggles with the rudeness and idiocy of some posters -- but that is not based on race, religion, or sexual preference -- just stupidity!). We need more Mormons like her.

By "results," I mean, how do we handle experiences and relationships with those different than we are? Do we approach them with an attitude of "I am better, or know more truth about heaven, or I am more chosen than that person, so I will respond accordingly." Perhaps it is the rules one person has for their kids' associating with other kids that are different. The results will show that attitude. The person's friends, their discussions about people, and their choice of social events will indicate their attitude.

Yes, the issue is forefront in General Conference, and I choose to be optimistic that it is, and will continue to help LDS members get past long-held prejudices, bigotry, and intolerance that has clearly been a part of the LDS culture since its inception. Of course other religions need to do the same, but "we" can't change them, we can only change ourselves...and the justification of "well, others do it too" reminds me of the immature arguments that kids make. Let's all grow up and take responsibility for ourselves individually and make this place more accepting of ALL people!


Well said, BishopRick.

Carpe Diem wrote:

Vlad Tepes wrote:

As an LDS person, I agree. I have heard several LDS Church leaders warn members to not have holier than thou attitudes.

As an exLDS person, I also agree. I know that the LDS leaders have couseled against this kind of attitude, but have to wonder just how serious they are. Seems that if they were truly serious about it, they would take some steps to try to change that attitude. How about including some religious diversity lessons in the lesson manuals for the youth? How about a joint LDS/Baptist summer picnic? How about a bishop/pastor swap with the Presbyterians with a Q&A session for the members of each congregation? I think that there are positive steps that could be taken, other than just pontificating about it twice a year at General Conference.
Like the old saying goes: "Talk Is Cheap."


Why waste time with fragmented doctrines when you already have the complete truth?

No, the church is doing what it's supposed to be doing. It's preparing the way for the second coming of Jesus Christ. I think your joint religion program would work great with the Catholics, though. Why don't you give them a ring?

Wren wrote:

wrz wrote:

Wren wrote:


However, I do believe where much has been given much is required.


Much was not given. It was earned.


Since you are active LDS (as you have stated elsewhere)...

More lies. I have never stated such a thing.

I counsel you to follow King Benjamin's advice in Mosiah about taking care of the poor.It is not your duty to question 'why?' but 'to do.'

I counsel you to take the advise of the bible where it says: "Let your conversations by yea, yea, nay, nay."