Wren wrote:

M Butler wrote:

The Keeper wrote:

M Butler wrote:

The headline writer is wrong of course. Maybe he or she was just trying to fit it into the limited space, but the children are not "illegal immigrants."

They are, of course, natural born citizens of the United States.

The U.S. and many other countries in the Americas follow the jus soli in granting citizenship to all who are born within its borders.

Sure, the Native Americans weren't citizens until 100 years ago, but then what other group of people living within the U.S. did the government enter into (and break, of course) treaties with? None. Because only the Native Americans were recognized as separate sovereign nations. (Look at the Commerce Clause, where Congress is give authority to regulate commerce "with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes". The Indians are sui generis, and their status isn't relevant to any other people.)

Changing the 14th amendment would not persuade people not to come to the U.S. Nor would it persuade people to leave. It would help create a perpetual class of non-citizens, who could be preyed upon by corrupt employers or corrupt police or corrupt politicians. I don't think that's a place we want to go.

Leave it to Butler to omit facts! Native tribes are separate sovereign nations? The key element is the federal government is trustee for those so-called sovereigns. Do sovereigns need federal and state permission to open casinos? Tell your fan club what a trustee is, Butler. Perhaps Butler can find their missing billions of dollars over at the BIA, being held in trust for them!


Someday when I have time I'll try to teach you the past tense.


Nope, it is the loonies who omit facts and admit errors.

Butler is right that "changing the 14th amendment" is not going to stop people from coming to the US. And the main point is this -- the overwhelming majority of citizens and the legislatures have absolutely no interest in changing it.

So go crawl under your rocks, for the bright sun of truth shines on you.

Who said the 14th Amendment is the "silver bullet" for immigration? And when did you become the "overwhelming majority"?

"And the main point is this -- the overwhelming majority of citizens and the legislatures have absolutely no interest in changing it."


The Rasumssen poll that came out I believe in late 2005 showed a plurality of Americans supporting abolition of birthright citizenship.

You have any facts to the contrary?

(by the way, when I ask Wren or Butler "do you have any facts", everyone understands that is a rhetorical question, right?)

lance_sjogren wrote:

(by the way, when I ask Wren or Butler "do you have any facts", everyone understands that is a rhetorical question, right?)




But Lance,

Surely, you understand that Butler and Wren believe that they somehow have the right to toss out "facts", while the rest of us, should be be brash enough to assume that we speak for the majority, will definitely will be called to account and called names for such behavior.

The illegal alien invasion that we face is in part, backed up by pure intimidation, and if they can get away with it, they we attempt to overwhelm us with "their" truth - in spite of the facts.

My question is why these protesters, who we pretty much understand to be illegal aliens (otherwise, why would they bother?), have ANY right to be protesting what WE do within OUR government? If it were up to me, I would be having ICE and enough paddy wagons around to deal with these protests.

lance_sjogren wrote:

"And the main point is this -- the overwhelming majority of citizens and the legislatures have absolutely no interest in changing it."


The Rasumssen poll that came out I believe in late 2005 showed a plurality of Americans supporting abolition of birthright citizenship.

You have any facts to the contrary?


Lance, you are such a sucker for the whack jobs. Your poll was flawed mucho as is your logic. The polls continually state that a solid majority of citizens support birthright citizenship and no changing of the 14th Amendment. Your major candidates on the issue not just lost, they got their butts handed to them, as Butler is doing to you guys.

Keep it up, though. I use your stuff in class, and it keeps the students laughing at your (lack of) logic and typical (Know Nothing) nativism.

Wren wrote:

lance_sjogren wrote:

"And the main point is this -- the overwhelming majority of citizens and the legislatures have absolutely no interest in changing it."


The Rasumssen poll that came out I believe in late 2005 showed a plurality of Americans supporting abolition of birthright citizenship.

You have any facts to the contrary?


Lance, you are such a sucker for the whack jobs. Your poll was flawed mucho as is your logic. The polls continually state that a solid majority of citizens support birthright citizenship and no changing of the 14th Amendment. Your major candidates on the issue not just lost, they got their butts handed to them, as Butler is doing to you guys.

Keep it up, though. I use your stuff in class, and it keeps the students laughing at your (lack of) logic and typical (Know Nothing) nativism.

The only thing that "keeps the students laughing" in your class is the threat of poor grades by their socialist left-wing instructor! A common affliction in American classrooms these days.