Wren wrote:

lance_sjogren wrote:

"And the main point is this -- the overwhelming majority of citizens and the legislatures have absolutely no interest in changing it."


The Rasumssen poll that came out I believe in late 2005 showed a plurality of Americans supporting abolition of birthright citizenship.

You have any facts to the contrary?


Lance, you are such a sucker for the whack jobs. Your poll was flawed mucho as is your logic. The polls continually state that a solid majority of citizens support birthright citizenship and no changing of the 14th Amendment. Your major candidates on the issue not just lost, they got their butts handed to them, as Butler is doing to you guys.

Keep it up, though. I use your stuff in class, and it keeps the students laughing at your (lack of) logic and typical (Know Nothing) nativism.


"Polls continually state"? What the heck are you blabbering about? You may NOT make blanket statements like that without at the very least pointing to some of your evidence that you are not simply lying.

Show us your "Polls that continually state that a solid majority of citizens support" your BS. Show us - or cease with the lies and BS.

Within the last day or two, I pointed to TWO polls is this very paper that stated otherwise. Where do you get the "Polls continually state" crap you are peddling?

Now, if your sources are from Mexico City, then I could understand.... If they are not, then I feel perfectly free to just call you an out and out lier because you think that you can get away with absolute falsehoods.

Well, you can't.

Russ wrote:

lance_sjogren wrote:

(by the way, when I ask Wren or Butler "do you have any facts", everyone understands that is a rhetorical question, right?)




But Lance,

Surely, you understand that Butler and Wren believe that they somehow have the right to toss out "facts", while the rest of us, should be be brash enough to assume that we speak for the majority, will definitely will be called to account and called names for such behavior.

The illegal alien invasion that we face is in part, backed up by pure intimidation, and if they can get away with it, they we attempt to overwhelm us with "their" truth - in spite of the facts.

My question is why these protesters, who we pretty much understand to be illegal aliens (otherwise, why would they bother?), have ANY right to be protesting what WE do within OUR government? If it were up to me, I would be having ICE and enough paddy wagons around to deal with these protests.


Thankfully, it's not up to you.

Wren wrote:

The polls continually state that a solid majority of citizens support birthright citizenship and no changing of the 14th Amendment.

Well this debate is over. Alright boys, open the gates and let `em in!

M Butler wrote:

Russ wrote:

lance_sjogren wrote:

(by the way, when I ask Wren or Butler "do you have any facts", everyone understands that is a rhetorical question, right?)




But Lance,

Surely, you understand that Butler and Wren believe that they somehow have the right to toss out "facts", while the rest of us, should be be brash enough to assume that we speak for the majority, will definitely will be called to account and called names for such behavior.

The illegal alien invasion that we face is in part, backed up by pure intimidation, and if they can get away with it, they we attempt to overwhelm us with "their" truth - in spite of the facts.

My question is why these protesters, who we pretty much understand to be illegal aliens (otherwise, why would they bother?), have ANY right to be protesting what WE do within OUR government? If it were up to me, I would be having ICE and enough paddy wagons around to deal with these protests.


Thankfully, it's not up to you.


And even MORE thankfully, it's not up to YOU! The kind of pro-illegal alien slurry your splatting all over the boards these days is pure anarchy. You don't have enough evidence to support your arguments so you attack the credibility of the others.

Let's face it. You might have won with a few hundred thousand illegals sneaking in, but it's just too many now to say it's without huge overhead, and simply stupid to blindly allow an amnesty.

Either way, it's going to cost a lot and require a lot of time. And either way, it's going to be "impossible" to facilitate. In the abscense of the "easy" way, therefore, we must not ignore the "right" way.

I'd rather accidently show a "good" worker to the door then accidently allow a rapist and child molester (or terrorist) to enter my neighborhood.

The Unites States has long fogotten about it's own, millions roam the streets searching for food and shelter, yet we let more and more in to roam with them.

Sorry, but charities and homeless shelters are getting burned out, as am I.

You think there's a lack of empathy in America now, wait until legal American citizens are even futher demoralized by the lack of integrity displayed by our government in the is amnesty issue by giving millions "free" citizenship with only "paper" requirements that won't be met, and they know it.

I'll pay a dollor or two more for my Tyson chicken if I have to, but the only thing that's going to stop the illegal immigration is one of two things:

1. America continues down it's path of corruption until it's worse than the other countries from with citizens immigrate.
2. We do something to stop the flow - OVERFLOW, that is. Some is okay, but it's TOO MANY!!

There have been too many abuse America's generous offer of the "American Dream" for only the cost of admission, which might only be a swim across the Rio Grande, to ignore. There's a reason why business who offer a great bargin say things like, "first 100 customers only", because there ain't enough "America" to go around.

You can look up the polls, and you will find they generally state what I summed up. And, OF COURSE, I may state this, silly boy.

If you folks believe eviscerating the 14th Amendment will lead to your desired results, you are ignoring the fact that you will get the majoritarian police state of which you are frightened.

The 14th Amendment protects all citizens, you, me, Butler, and birthright citizens.

But, OF COURSE, you have no hope of amending it, because the Constitution decides how to amend it, not you, not Congress, not me.

Wren wrote:

You can look up the polls, and you will find they generally state what I summed up. And, OF COURSE, I may state this, silly boy.

If you folks believe eviscerating the 14th Amendment will lead to your desired results, you are ignoring the fact that you will get the majoritarian police state of which you are frightened.

The 14th Amendment protects all citizens, you, me, Butler, and birthright citizens.

But, OF COURSE, you have no hope of amending it, because the Constitution decides how to amend it, not you, not Congress, not me.

You seem to be stuck in replay mode about he 14th Amendment being a "silver bullet" for immigration. You're the only one to arguing that angle. The Supreme Court has already stated that mere birth does not subject one to the jurisdiction of the United States. "THE PHRASE "SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION" RELATES TO TIME OF BIRTH, and one not owing ALLEGIANCE AT BIRTH cannot become a citizen save by subsequent naturalization, individually or collectively. The words do not mean merely geographical location, but "COMPLETELY SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION.' Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94, 102 (1884). (emphasis added)

Why are you talking about amending when Bush and his cronies just ignore the Constitution! You can still get your police state from some trumped up state of emergency.