earljr wrote:

Hammer wrote:

Just curious; Has anyone though of this possibility? The whole voucher issue is backed by several high-powered investment groups. To me, that just says more big business. You know, like big oil, big insurance and the like. Now this would turn into big education, which is exactly what I believe it is. And they chose to try it on Utah. Why? Because someone told them those Utahns are really easy to dupe.


Oil I understand. WalMart I understand. But exactly how does someone get rich running private schools at half what the public schools spend? And if they are already rich, why would they waste time on this?


They don't. They cost more on average. And vouchers will only make the price go up, because of the laws of economics: supply and demand and inflation. The voucher will increase demand, but the dollars are not enough (unless the legislature takes more away from public ed. for them) to build more private school buildings, so the price will go up - whatever the market will bear! An increase in the money supply (vouchers) always causes inflation in prices as well.

If the voucher got going, Walmart would jump in with WALSCHOOLS! Isn't that exciting?! Other posts have done a better job than I could at describing how little it takes to qualify, and how easy it would be to profit while providing very little education. Milwaukee's experience shows us that many would stay in those schools even after they were found out, and it would take quite some time before the parents found out.

The UEA convention was very small indeed. But the joke that the UEA/NEA holds an educational monopoly is a joke, and I bet the PCE crowd understands that a bit more as we are getting closer to defeating this grand subsidy.

I had a chance to meet the Salt Lake City School District former superintendent who was instrumental in Utah's Open Enrollment Act during the seventies. What a great conversation we had. When the Open Enrollment Act took place the SLCSD had many families return to the public school system from the private one. That was a real example of what school choice is.

The Parents for Choice Act has nothing to do with actual choice. We cannot force a private school to accept a child just because one has a voucher, so parents are not the ones who have choice. I also learned that in Florida when the legislature their passed a choice law they required all participating schools to accept a certain percentage of vouchers from any child who had one. Most (over 90 percent) private schools chose not to accept vouchers when it would be parents who chose what school the child would attend.

People like Richard Eyre stand to make a great deal of profit off the two private schools he has. Yes the man is already rich, but a few more million never hurt anyone before.

What I don't understand is a poster like Grak who is anti tax for government services who in the case of vouchers is all for paying for every child in private school a portion of their tuition after thirteen years. That is what the vouchers are as of right now. I already mentioned on another thread that if it is passed we will see an expansion of tax dollars going to pay for something that we do not currently pay for. And just wait for the lawsuits from private school families that open up the state to funding all those kids 'excluded' from being eligible based on already being at a private school. What court would deny that as discrimination?

We cannot allow vouchers on the books, because the courts AND the legislature are likely to expand the program beyond the project costs. Let people choose to pay for private products on their own dime. Vote against this government subsidy and protect the general fund from being misused.

earljr wrote:

Hammer wrote:

Just curious; Has anyone though of this possibility? The whole voucher issue is backed by several high-powered investment groups. To me, that just says more big business. You know, like big oil, big insurance and the like. Now this would turn into big education, which is exactly what I believe it is. And they chose to try it on Utah. Why? Because someone told them those Utahns are really easy to dupe.


Oil I understand. WalMart I understand. But exactly how does someone get rich running private schools at half what the public schools spend? And if they are already rich, why would they waste time on this? And you don't benefit from big business at all do you? You would prefer to get your electronics, toiletries, and gasoline at a government run store?


My point is that the voucher program isn't a way to "help Utah families," or "help Utah kids," or "Give parents the choice." Rather, it is about a few people investing money and they will in fact get rich. It's even corporate welfare at its best if it passes. Our public tax dollars will be helping a private interest. It won't be to the scale of big oil. It's not going to cause and create war in the world. But it has nothing to do with education or what's best for Utahns and their kids. Also, to answer your question of, "If they're already rich, why would they waste their time on this?", Why do oil companies continue to invest? Why do rich people continue to invest? Because they love money and enough is never enough. But, again, my point is that the voucher system has nothing to do with education.

Hammer wrote:

earljr wrote:

Hammer wrote:

Just curious; Has anyone though of this possibility? The whole voucher issue is backed by several high-powered investment groups. To me, that just says more big business. You know, like big oil, big insurance and the like. Now this would turn into big education, which is exactly what I believe it is. And they chose to try it on Utah. Why? Because someone told them those Utahns are really easy to dupe.


Oil I understand. WalMart I understand. But exactly how does someone get rich running private schools at half what the public schools spend? And if they are already rich, why would they waste time on this? And you don't benefit from big business at all do you? You would prefer to get your electronics, toiletries, and gasoline at a government run store?


My point is that the voucher program isn't a way to "help Utah families," or "help Utah kids," or "Give parents the choice." Rather, it is about a few people investing money and they will in fact get rich. It's even corporate welfare at its best if it passes. Our public tax dollars will be helping a private interest. It won't be to the scale of big oil. It's not going to cause and create war in the world. But it has nothing to do with education or what's best for Utahns and their kids. Also, to answer your question of, "If they're already rich, why would they waste their time on this?", Why do oil companies continue to invest? Why do rich people continue to invest? Because they love money and enough is never enough. But, again, my point is that the voucher system has nothing to do with education.


Rich people trying to make more money typically invest in something that can make more money. Private schools in Utah will make very little. You still haven't shown me big business can benefit financially. I believe they are in it solely to improve education. They will continue to heavily subsidise private schools as they do now. That is the opposite of making money I believe. You don't like the vouchers, but there is nothing to your big business idea. Nothing.

earljr wrote:

Rich people trying to make more money typically invest in something that can make more money. Private schools in Utah will make very little. You still haven't shown me big business can benefit financially. I believe they are in it solely to improve education. They will continue to heavily subsidise private schools as they do now. That is the opposite of making money I believe. You don't like the vouchers, but there is nothing to your big business idea. Nothing.


There's a difference between "big business" (which isn't how I'd describe someone trying to create for-profit charter or private schools) and the search for individual wealth. There are people who have left very successful and profitable careers in business to start charter schools. Why? Because they recognize an opportunity to make money. I said to myself, "what must that person be making as a charter school developer to have justified leaving behind their old career? Can there really be that much money in this?"

So while I wouldn't call it "big business," people are absolutely making money here.