earljr wrote:

theTruth wrote:

earljr wrote:

Hammer wrote:

Also, for those of you middle-classers like me; if the voucher system is passed, it will cost you. Taxes will be raised. On a $200,000 house, your property taxes will increase $100/year, every year, for at least the next 20 years. And of course that goes up if you have a nicer house than me.


Of course even the anti voucher people will admit that you totally made this up. There is no property tax increase even possible as a result of vouchers. Vouchers are not funded by property taxes. Please post your sources.

As for this inane letter, I know a truck load of people who will be able afford private school with the help of vouchers. None of them rich. Some poor. I personally home school, so we are not eligible for vouchers even if we wanted to go to private school. However, we could easily afford private school at American Heritage with vouchers. We could not possibly afford it without the vouchers. You guys are liars and despise the poor as much as you despise the rich.


Where are they going to get the money to pay for this? This is what I do know, some years close to 70% of my property tax goes to the school district. So if they need more money, a good chance I will have to pay for it in property tax, and then if not property tax, then it will come from my state income tax. I don't like that.


Why would they need more money if kids leave to go to private schools? Should they build more schools for kids who are no longer there? And if we don't pass vouchers, do you think they will suddenly stop raising your taxes? We didn't have vouchers before, and look what happened to your property tax each year. You have this all backwards.


People are so blind on this. Someone just asked "Why they would need more money if the kids leave to go to private schools?". Umm.. this is a huge 'doh' !! The state is asking me to pay for those kids to to private school. Thats what this whole voucher thing is about. Getting me to pay for kids to go to public school. So please get the facts strait before asking questions like that.

cache wrote:

theTruth wrote:

cache wrote:

leftintheuc wrote:

unaffiliated_person wrote:

With a 2000 voucher, it would cost about 2-3000 dollars out of pocket to attend a private school with many of their tuition rates.


This is my point: This is still at least a couple hundred bucks per month per child.


It depends on the private school. I was surprised to see how many private schools there are in Utah whose tuition would be completely covered by a voucher:

http://affordableprivateschools.com/bystate.aspx?state=UT


People have already called you on this.

But just to add my voice. PLEASE stop lying. Yes your post is a lie. The first school I looked up on there doesn't exist, and the second is not a real school (based on a real school is accredited and you can get to college through it.

It amazes me how people will simply accept lies, just so they can think something is good. I don't know what to think of our society because of this. Its always been like this to a degree, but it seems we are slipping into the deep end where people don't care about truth, facts, what might really be good even if it goes against you. Its all about just believing your right, at any cost, even our morality. Its about fighting and having to win and be right. Its about belonging to a group and never admitting my group could be wrong. I pray that some will see this. That we can go back to a more moral people.


Please point out where people have called me on this. Oh wait, they haven't, as this is the first time I've posted regarding specific private schools. But thanks for the personal insult, which only reflects poorly on yourself.

The link I posted has been used by other news agencies as well as by those researching private school tuition, from both sides of the voucher debate. Not sure how me posting that all of a sudden makes me a "liar". Here's some information regarding the first school. Sorry you had trouble finding it:

http://www.privateschoolreview.com/school_ov/school_id/27818

The phone number is active if you feel so inclined to contact them.

As far as a private school not being "accredited", incoming college freshman from private schools can take approved tests to make sure they learned what they needed to in school. It's not that big of a deal. I must have missed the whole "real school" thing you brought up....I didn't see it in the voucher legislation, I'll go back and see if I can find it. Oh, and thanks again for the personal attacks and have a super great day!


Hmm, ok, I will point out where people haev called you on this:

Quote from: cache on November 03, 2007, 05:19:02 PM
Quote from: leftintheuc on November 02, 2007, 04:07:59 PM
Quote from: unaffiliated_person on November 02, 2007, 04:04:49 PM
With a 2000 voucher, it would cost about 2-3000 dollars out of pocket to attend a private school with many of their tuition rates.

This is my point: This is still at least a couple hundred bucks per month per child.

It depends on the private school. I was surprised to see how many private schools there are in Utah whose tuition would be completely covered by a voucher:

http://affordableprivateschools.com/bystate.aspx?state=UT

There is a lot of incomplete information there. If you un-click religious it still lists the American Heritage Schools (LDS). The majority of the non-sectarian institutions seem quite a bit more expensive. It appears that vouchers will mostly be useful for religious schools which seems to go against the Utah constitution (if not the US).

Quote from: cache on November 03, 2007, 05:19:02 PM
Quote from: leftintheuc on November 02, 2007, 04:07:59 PM
Quote from: unaffiliated_person on November 02, 2007, 04:04:49 PM
With a 2000 voucher, it would cost about 2-3000 dollars out of pocket to attend a private school with many of their tuition rates.

This is my point: This is still at least a couple hundred bucks per month per child.

It depends on the private school. I was surprised to see how many private schools there are in Utah whose tuition would be completely covered by a voucher:

http://affordableprivateschools.com/bystate.aspx?state=UT

Look at the details. Many of those schools will not qualify for the voucher program. Furthermore, many of them probably won't accept the vouchers as well.

In Salt Lake County, there is one school (St. John the Baptist) for 1st through 6th graders that is under $4000 and currently meets the minimum requirements for voucher schools, at least with the data the website has available. It's pretty clear to me that this website is nothing but a propaganda tool set up to try to deflect criticism about the lack of availability for low cost private schools.

Now take back the statement where you said no one called you on this. Or don't
Next issue, rather than back up the veracity of your post, you simply say other news agencies use it. You should know that tons of so called news agencies report things that are not correct. People just say what others want to hear, its a common practice today sadly.
And for your third issue of 'real school'. I put that in there because distance learning for high school from a non accredited place is going to be recognized by most of us as not that good of an education.

It seems the anti-voucher people will win at polls. I do not have much of a stake in it. However, I find the private sector tends to be much more efficient than the public sector. Compare private retirement plans to social security. How about UPS/Fedex versus the Post Office. Private schools versus public schools. Would you rather have a private attorney or public defender with you at court? I had thought vouchers would have provided a way for average people to crack their way into private schools, instead of leaving them as strongholds of the wealthy. I would much prefer to send my children to a secular private school rather than public school. However, no "choice" exists for us middle class people. I do not have a "choice" to buy a million dollar home anymore than I have a "choice" to send my children to private school currently. This bill seems to level the playing field for those who want a private education for their children. We all pay taxes, what is wrong about choosing where your educational dollars go?

unaffiliated_person wrote:

It seems the anti-voucher people will win at polls. I do not have much of a stake in it. However, I find the private sector tends to be much more efficient than the public sector. Compare private retirement plans to social security. How about UPS/Fedex versus the Post Office. Private schools versus public schools. Would you rather have a private attorney or public defender with you at court? I had thought vouchers would have provided a way for average people to crack their way into private schools, instead of leaving them as strongholds of the wealthy. I would much prefer to send my children to a secular private school rather than public school. However, no "choice" exists for us middle class people. I do not have a "choice" to buy a million dollar home anymore than I have a "choice" to send my children to private school currently. This bill seems to level the playing field for those who want a private education for their children. We all pay taxes, what is wrong about choosing where your educational dollars go?


I would agree that the idea is a good one. Sadly my feeling this implementation of it is mostly drive by money (or power maybe) because of all the underhanded stuff to get this passed. Sadly that as made me really really skeptical of it.

As for private vs public, I half agree. Many times private is better. Especially when businesses are involved. But I also do not think government (or public services like utilities and education) served that well with the private model. The private model when based on capitalism has one overriding goal, profit. And that profit far out ways any prerogative to do good for society. As a society it would seem we should be able to make public education work. (I actually think we do a half decent job. But I am also one that think education is the primary responsibility of the family. School are more to teach social aspects through experience, and to fill in subjects where parents might not be that good at (chemistry, other sciences, arts, sports, etc, etc)