Dubss wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Funny you should say this because there has been books written about the Blood Atonement, journals, biographies ect.

But Dubss you just call them anti-Mormon stuff non-Mormon Propaganda.

Just like the Neo-Nazis call the written books about the Holocaust, journals, biographies, Anti-Nazi stuff and the Jew lovers Propaganda

So now you have books on the subject? Surely they would have names, which books are you referring to?

Well if you really want to know!!

Boy I feel like how that lawyer Fred Gailey in the movie Miracle on 34th Street must have felt when the judge said put all the Santa letters on my desk "LOL"

How about the Journal of Discourses??

Diary of Thomas Bullock, 13 December 1846

Diary of Willard Richards, Dec. 20, 1846; Watson, Manuscript History of Brigham Young, 1846-1847, p. 480.

Diary of Mary Haskin Parker Richards, 16 April 1848.

Daniel Davis diary, 8 July 1849, LDS archives, quoted in (Quinn 1997, p. 247).

John D. Lee Diary, March 3, 1849.

Blood Atonement by Roberts, Brigham H.

Bancroft, Hubert Howe (1889), The Works of Hubert Howe Bancroft: History of Utah, 1540–1886, vol. 26, San Francisco: History Company, .

Beck, Martha (2005), Leaving the Saints, New York: Crown Publishers, ISBN 0-609-60991-2.

Buerger, David John (2002), The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship (2nd ed.), Salt Lake City: Signature Books, ISBN 1560851767.

Campbell, Eugene E. (1988), Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847–1869, Salt Lake City: Signature Books, .

Cannon, Frank J. & Knapp, George L. (1913), Brigham Young and His Mormon Empire, New York: Fleming H. Revell Co., .

Cummings, Richard J (1982), "Quintessential Mormonism: Literal-mindedness as a Way of Life", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 15 (4), .

Denton, Sally (2003), American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 1857, London: Secker & Warburg, ISBN 0436276011.

Evans, Richard C (1920), Forty Years in the Mormon Church: Why I Left It, Self published, .

Gardner, Martin R (Spring 1979), "Mormonism and Capital Punishment: A Doctrinal Perspective, Past and Present", Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 12 (1), .

Grant, Jedediah M. (March 12, 1854), "Discourse", Deseret News 4 (20): 1–2, July 27, 1854, .

Grant, Jedediah M. (September 21, 1856), "Rebuking Iniquity", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, vol. 4, Liverpool: S.W. Richards, 1857, pp. 49–51.

Jessee, Dean C. (1971), "The Writing of Joseph Smith's History", BYU Studies 11 (4): 439–73,

Kimball, Heber C. (January 11, 1857), "The Body of Christ-Parable of the Vine-A Wile Enthusiastic Spirit Not of God-The Saints Should Not Unwisely Expose Each Others' Follies", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, vol. 4, Liverpool: S.W. Richards, 1857, pp. 164–81.

Kimball, Heber C. (August 16, 1857), "Limits of Forebearance-Apostates-Economy-Giving Endowments", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, vol. 4, Liverpool: S.W. Richards, 1857, pp. 374–76.

Krakauer, Jon (2003), Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, Doubleday, ISBN 0-385-50951-0.

Lambert, Neal E. & Cracroft, Richard H. (March 1972), "Through Gentile Eyes: A Hundred Years of the Mormon in Fiction", New Era (Salt Lake City, Utah: LDS Church), .

May, Dean L (1987), Utah: A People's History, Salt Lake City, Utah: Bonneville Books, ISBN 0-87480-284-9.

McConkie, Bruce R (1966), Mormon Doctrine (2 ed.), Salt Lake City.

McConkie, Bruce R (October 18, 1978), Letter from Bruce R. McConkie to Thomas B. McAffee, .

McKeever, Bill, Blood Atonement - If It Was Never Taught, Why Do So Many Mormons Believe It?,

Mormonism Research Ministry, . Retrieved on 2007-03-12.

Parker, Mike, Did Brigham Young Say that He Would Kill an Adulterous Wife with a Javelin?, Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR), .

Peck, Reed (September 18, 1839), Reed Peck manuscript, Quincy Adams City, Illinois, .

Penrose, Charles W. (November 17, 1880), "Capital Punishment for Capital Crime", Deseret News 29 (42): 664, .

Penrose, Charles W. (July 4, 1883), "An Unpardonable Offense", Deseret News 32 (24): 376, .

Penrose, Charles W. (1884), Blood Atonement, As Taught by Leading Elders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City.

Pratt, Parley P. (December 31, 1855), "Marriage and Morals in Utah", Deseret News 5 (45): 356–57, January 16, 1856, .

Quinn, D. Michael (1997), The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Salt Lake City: Signature Books, ISBN 1-56085-060-4.

Roberts, B. H., ed. (1902), History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 1, Salt Lake City: Deseret News, .

Roberts, B. H., ed. (1909), History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 5, Salt Lake City: Deseret News, .

Roberts, B. H., ed. (1932), History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 7, Salt Lake City: Deseret News, .

Smith, Joseph Fielding (1954), McConkie, Bruce R., ed., Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, Salt Lake City, Utah: Bookcraft.

Smith, Joseph Fielding (1957), "The Doctrine of Blood Atonement", Answers to Gospel Questions (Salt Lake City): 180-91.

Smith, Joseph (May 1971), "The King Follett Sermon", Ensign (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), .

Smith, William (October 29, 1845), "A Proclamation", Warsaw Signal (Warsaw, Illinois) 2 (32), .

Snow, Lowell M (1992), "Blood Atonement", in Ludlow, Daniel H., Encyclopedia of Mormonism: The History, Scripture, Doctrine, and Procedure of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 1, New York: MacMillan, .

Stenhouse, T.B.H. (1873), The Rocky Mountain Saints: a Full and Complete History of the Mormons, from the First Vision of Joseph Smith to the Last Courtship of Brigham Young, New York: D. Appleton, .

Taylor, John (January 1884), "Ecclesiastical Control in Utah", North American Review 138 (326): 1–13, .

Young, Brigham (February 5, 1852), Speach by Gov. Young in Joint Session of the Legeslature (sic), Brigham Young Addresses, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3, LDS Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah, .

Young, Brigham (May 8, 1853), "President B. Young’s Journey South—Indian Difficulties—Walker—Watching and Prayer—Thieves and Their Desserts—Eastern Intelligence—Financial State of the Church—Gaining Knowledge, etc.", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, His Two Counsellors, the Twelve Apostles, and Others, vol. 1, Liverpool: F.D. & S.W.

Richards, 1854, pp. 103–120.
Young, Brigham (March 2, 1856), "The Necessity of the Saints Living up to the Light Which Has Been Given Them", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, His Two Counsellors, the Twelve Apostles, and Others, vol. 3, Liverpool: Orson Pratt, 1856, pp. 221–226.

Young, Brigham (March 16, 1856), "Instructions to the Bishops—Men Judged According to their Knowledge—Organization of the Spirit and Body—Thought and Labor to be Blended Together", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, His Two Counsellors, the Twelve Apostles, and Others, vol. 3, Liverpool: Orson Pratt, 1856, pp. 243–49.

Young, Brigham (September 21, 1856), "The People of God Disciplined by Trials—Atonement by the Shedding of Blood—Our Heavenly Father—A Privilege Given to all the Married Sisters in Utah", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, vol. 4, Liverpool: S.W. Richards, 1857, pp. 51–63.

Young, Brigham (February 8, 1857), "To Know God is Eternal Life—God the Father of Our Spirits and Bodies—Things Created Spiritually First—Atonement by the Shedding of Blood", in Watt, G.D.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, vol. 4, Liverpool: S.W. Richards, 1857, pp. 215–21.

Young, Brigham (March 8, 1863), "The Persecutions of the Saints—Their Loyalty to the Constitution—The Mormon Battalion—The Laws of God Relative to the African Race", in Watt, G.D. & Long, J.V.,

Journal of Discourses Delivered by President Brigham Young, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, and Others, vol. 10, Liverpool: Daniel H. Wells, 1865, pp. 104–111.

Young, Brigham (April 7, 1867), "The Word of Wisdom—Degeneracy—Wickedness in the United States—How to Prolong Life", in Watt, G.D.; Sloan, E.L. & Evans, D.W.,

Journal of Discourses by Brigham Young, His Two Counsellors, and the Twelve Apostles, vol. 12, Liverpool: Albert Carrington, 1869, pp. 117–123.

Young, Brigham (April 30, 1877), "Interview with Brigham Young", Deseret News 26 (16): 242–43, May 23, 1877, .

THERES LOTS MORE DUBSS BUT I THINK YOU GOT IT!!
"YES IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT"!!!

And in all that, no name.

SAD isn't it!!
But wait Dubss I did give names did you miss them ?? go back and look!!

KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubss wrote:

Why, yes, yes you did, Dubss. Anyone can look it up.

Notice to you evangelical and fundamentalists: you are satanic Christians, according to Dubss, who once again has lied.
[autoe] Dubss wrote, Then prove it you lieing fundamentalist Korihor.[] Korihor was a fundamentalist? I am not sure that Dubss really knows what a fundamentalist of any religious stripe truly is.

Anybody, Dubss, can go back and look up what you called Todd Compton, a great LDS writer, because I cited him as an example that good LDS writers do not agree with you. I am sure that JR and Jaye, who never lie, and several others remember it, so, no, podjo, we are not going to play your game and repost it. The evidence has been given and gives away your lies.

You are a liar and have been repeatedly on this forum. You called fundamentalist Christians "satanic." You still stand by that? By the by, do you have Haights and Dames and Lees in your ancestry?

Well if "anyone can do it" then do it, prove yourself to be not the lieing fundamentalist that is just making a libelis comment.

Gotta love the name calling comeing back, podjo. shows you need to also follow your own advice before casting stones.

You remain the joke on this forum, podjo.

You whine about name calling and call fundamentalist Christians "satanic." You say I libel you when the proof is there for anyone, yet you libel everyone with whom you disagree.

Everyone knows what you are about

So come after me, you great UCF joke.


Just as I thought, you can't come up with my quote, because you know... "anybody can do it" How they going to go look when the past forum and all our threads were deleted you idjit???


Typical libel statement by the left wing whacko Fundo's with the satanic obession with others faith.
Dubs, I do remember you bashing Todd Compton as "anti". I have no doubt I remember that. Wren is right.

As for the rest of your statement, it makes no sense. You only come across as having a temper tantrum.

I concur with both of your points.

Inconvenient how the Herald deleted all of our past comments...isn't it?

Of course it didn't affect Kent much...after all...he keeps lists. He's probably got most of his 'enemies' past comments bookmarked so he can copy and paste them any time he pleases.

Jaye wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Do you suppose that all dissenters against the Mormon faith were Mormons?

By definition, a dissenter is someone who leaves the faith because of disbelief. so yes.

Dubss that's not true!!

dis-sent-er

One who dissents: political dissenters.
often Dissenter One who refuses to accept the doctrines or usages of an established or a national church.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

It's not necessarily a person who was a member of a church it could be just someone or anyone for that matter who just refuses to accept the doctrines of any church..

So now your saying the church went around killing NON mormons just because they wouldn't believe? If that were the case we'd have quite a story and journal and newspaper articles verify this to be the case.

Not necessarily true.

A prime example is what happened to the Expositor.
Printing presses can be easily destroyed, and the dissenters writing the dissenting articles can easily be cowed into silence, or into packing up and leaving, or else they simply disappear one dark night.

And those who decided to leave could easily be tracked down and murdered in their sleeping roll at their campsite.

The members who were not so zealous as to actually condone these actions were easily discouraged from talking about it. Fear of reprisal is a powerful motivation.

John D.Lee spoke of knowing of many a man who was 'used up' or 'put quietly out of the way'.

So did others involved with the Danites.

The wilderness was vast Dubya. Lots of places to hide bodies where they'd never be found. And the Danites were cunning in their service to the Church, and in carrying out their assigned assassinations.

As for relatives of men who mysteriously disappeared...they probably figured they had met up with Indians.

That was the common tale put out by Mormons after all...the Indians did it.

And the Mormons controlled everything in those communities. It's not like as if a dissenting member, or gentile was going to get damning evidence or tales through to their relatives via the postal service.

Yes this is true Dubss!!

Here is a example of the church telling the relatives to keep their mouth shut

Look at the murder of Rosmos Anderson (BTW Here's another Name I found for you Dubss) a Mormon Council voted that Anderson must die for violating his covenants.

His wife was ordered to prepare a suit of clean clothing, in which to have her husband buried, and was informed that he was to be killed for his sins, she being directed to tell those who should enquire after her husband that he had gone to California.

Klingensmith, James Haslem, Daniel McFarland and John M. Higbee dug a grave in the field near Cedar City, Anderson knelt upon the side of the grave and prayed.

Klingensmith and his company then cut Anderson's throat from ear to ear and held him so that his blood ran into the grave.

As soon as he was dead they dressed him in his clean clothes, threw him into the grave and buried him.

They then carried his bloody clothing back to his family, and gave them to his wife to wash, when she was again instructed to say that her husband was in California .... The killing of Anderson was then considered a religious duty and a just act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_Atonement

See Dubss!!

Dubss wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubss wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
kristiclark wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubss wrote:
kristiclark wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Wren wrote:
Bearyb wrote, "My only point here is to simply say that we don't know the mind of the Lord, nor how He may choose to deal with whom He chooses to deal with. We will likely never know or fully understand what Joseph knew and understood, and we should probably not concentrate on the faults of others in any case."

This is great advice. I suggest that you will "likely never know or fully understand what Jaye" knows or understands. Leave it alone, please, Bearyb, and follow your own advice.Nor do you, or anybody fully understand Jaye, becuase much like you and many of your ilk, your ready and able to bash other's faith, but when it comes to discussing your own? Bunch of cowards.

Are you describing yourelf, Dubss? This is not about Jaye at all. It's about you and how you feel about yourself.

And how do I feel about myself oh wiseone? I have a great family, 3 kids, great wife, 15 years of marriage, great job, live in a great house, go on great vacations, have many good friends, feel great about myself, as we all do, I sometimes make mistakes, and need to repent, but overall, I feel great about myself. My life is great, but thanks for the concern.
LOL!

You little liar! No one believes you.

Don't forget, you also claimed to be some kind of karate champ with a 29-0 record. Bigdaddy proved that was a lie.

And as I've said many times, unlike you, I could care less what strangers on a blog believe or disbelieve about me. You will never meet me, never see me, never know the real me. Nor do you really know anyone here.


And how did Bigdummy prove anything I've said is a lie?
He called the UFC folks to check on a 29-0 record. He was told no one has it. Liar.

Unsubstantiated claims like this characterize borderline personalities.

How do you know it's unsubstantiated? Did you call? Or are you believing a guy who is a liar himself?

By the way, I'm not buying that your new here, your just a reincarnated nut job that probally got banned and is coming back around, probally a single cat lady that likes her cats more than reality. I see that alot.
You are so arrogant that it is sickening. And disgusting.

You made some comments in the past concerning hearing impairment. You didn't even realize that deaf people has language problems, yet you say your daughter is deaf. You lie!

Is it not possible that being new to the culture, I didn't know? I mean I have only been learning sign for about a year and a half, my daughter is four, and I have about the same level of sign as she does, my wife is taking sign classes to catch up to her, she now has a signing aide at her preschool, and is passing us up, so excuse me if I didn't know all the details of the deaf community.
This post just further convinced me I'm right. Besides, other things you have said in the past raised a flag with me.

I'm not even talking about sign language skills, dubya.

You are dense, as you yourself would say.

Well you sure can see his lack of empathy of deaf people.. and that's strange for someone who says that their little daughter is deaf....

Poor little mite...eh?

But you know what Kent says about it...he's not the same in real life as he is here.

I wonder if he even gets off his butt to go tuck the little tyke into bed and give her hugs and kisses?

And with all the posts you have here, I wonder if your wife even knows who you are.

And bigdummy, I have never had lack of empathy to deaf people you POSWT, get your facts straight for once and stop lieing and making stuff up.

My wife knows who I am. She's had a little over 34 years to get to know me, and she knows me better than any other human being has ever known me.

I can say with utter confidence that she knows me better than ANYONE...period...save perhaps for myself...and the Lord.

But the fact remains...my wife is an adult, she is not hearing impaired, and she has her own business and activities to attend to.

I do feel sorry for your children Dubya...because you do spend an inordinate amount of time arguing on this forum, which might better be spent with them.

They tend to grow up pretty quickly, Dubya. And the time rapidly comes where youngsters who are neglected by their father seek their role-models and mentoring elsewhere.

Think about it. I'm truly not trying to be rude here. I'm genuinely concerned. Especially regarding a 4 year old girl who is hearing impaired, and for whom the world must be a truly perplexing and frustrating place.

And I feel sorry for your wife, with the amount of posts you have here and the amount of time, never seemingly ever being gone from this site for a few days even, you must never take vacations, never see her much, she must always just see the back of your head typing away maddenly on the computer.

Straighten out your own life Jaye, don't worry about me or my kids, and don't bring them up.

1. You brought up your kids in the first place Kent...not me.

2. My life's pretty straight.

3. My wife is a busy woman...like I said...she has her own business to attend to. She also has her friends, her women's circles and she has also been spending quite a bit of time giving comfort to a couple of friends who are terminally ill.

Consider my words regarding your daughter. I meant well.

Sounds like you both have your seperate worlds apart from each other. mmmmm

Quit trying to be the all wise clifford clavin, and worry about your own life/wife.

Man I can see Dubss now breaking the arm of a long haired hippy for talking too loud in a movie theater,
Only to find out later when he gets to heavens Gates that the long haired hippy was Jesus and he was trying to talk to others about God that day in the theater

Dubss you can't tell when others are trying to be nice or do good....


Your about as illogical as a brick wall.

I seriously doubt Christ would have walked into a crowded theator, interupted people who have paid money to watch a show, be as rude to interupt, and be so insensitive and rude. What a tard.
No, Christ wouldn't have. But then, would He have resorted to violence the way you did (or claim to, at least)?

Please don't use the word "tard". It really isn't very nice.

I believe Christ would have defended himself if someone put their hands on him, yes. With the exception of the martydom, which he undestood was to happen.

Christ taught to return good for evil, kindness for unkindness, and that if a man strikes you on the cheek...offer him the other cheek to strike as well.

According to the Bible, Jesus never lifted a finger to defend Himself.

But He did, on occasion, simply vanish amid the press of the crowd.

Wasn't it you who just said he protected what was his in the temple? Physically throwing people out? I don't look at him as someone who would allow a person to push him around.
So you think Christ would break someone's arm just for having a big mouth? As I said, you say anything to justify your own behavior.

I think if someone was pushing him and acting in a threatening manner, he would grab the arm and stop it, yes. As I said in the past, I don't know that I broke his arm, but I did hurt it, as I've also said, I was defending myself, so is it my fault if his arm was hurt? No, it's not.
Justify it all you want. Your behavior was that of a bully. You were in a theatre, dubya, not a back alley somewhere. Grow up.

You grow up Kitkat, I was defending myself, get a life while your at it.

"LOL" ""What are you Dubss 5 years old"""LOL"

Dubss wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubss wrote:

Why, yes, yes you did, Dubss. Anyone can look it up.

Notice to you evangelical and fundamentalists: you are satanic Christians, according to Dubss, who once again has lied.
[autoe] Dubss wrote, Then prove it you lieing fundamentalist Korihor.[] Korihor was a fundamentalist? I am not sure that Dubss really knows what a fundamentalist of any religious stripe truly is.

Anybody, Dubss, can go back and look up what you called Todd Compton, a great LDS writer, because I cited him as an example that good LDS writers do not agree with you. I am sure that JR and Jaye, who never lie, and several others remember it, so, no, podjo, we are not going to play your game and repost it. The evidence has been given and gives away your lies.

You are a liar and have been repeatedly on this forum. You called fundamentalist Christians "satanic." You still stand by that? By the by, do you have Haights and Dames and Lees in your ancestry?

Well if "anyone can do it" then do it, prove yourself to be not the lieing fundamentalist that is just making a libelis comment.

Gotta love the name calling comeing back, podjo. shows you need to also follow your own advice before casting stones.

What in Gods name is libelis

Dubss wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubss wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubss wrote:

Why, yes, yes you did, Dubss. Anyone can look it up.

Notice to you evangelical and fundamentalists: you are satanic Christians, according to Dubss, who once again has lied.
[autoe] Dubss wrote, Then prove it you lieing fundamentalist Korihor.[] Korihor was a fundamentalist? I am not sure that Dubss really knows what a fundamentalist of any religious stripe truly is.

Anybody, Dubss, can go back and look up what you called Todd Compton, a great LDS writer, because I cited him as an example that good LDS writers do not agree with you. I am sure that JR and Jaye, who never lie, and several others remember it, so, no, podjo, we are not going to play your game and repost it. The evidence has been given and gives away your lies.

You are a liar and have been repeatedly on this forum. You called fundamentalist Christians "satanic." You still stand by that? By the by, do you have Haights and Dames and Lees in your ancestry?

Well if "anyone can do it" then do it, prove yourself to be not the lieing fundamentalist that is just making a libelis comment.

Gotta love the name calling comeing back, podjo. shows you need to also follow your own advice before casting stones.

You remain the joke on this forum, podjo.

You whine about name calling and call fundamentalist Christians "satanic." You say I libel you when the proof is there for anyone, yet you libel everyone with whom you disagree.

Everyone knows what you are about

So come after me, you great UCF joke.


Just as I thought, you can't come up with my quote, because you know... "anybody can do it" How they going to go look when the past forum and all our threads were deleted you idjit???


Typical libel statement by the left wing whacko Fundo's with the satanic obession with others faith.

"NOT TRUE"
Tell me what thread it was in and I'll find it!!

Just give me a little time