truthhurts wrote:
The Truth Typhoon wrote:
You're frightened that your crazy ass old mean tempered McCain is going to get up on stage in the debate this October and spill his load of venom on Obama (just like he did over and over on Mitt this winter). And the American people are going to think, "Man, do I want 4 years of this angry old coot in the White House?" They are going to listen to Obama give a great vision of America's future . . . and they will know who to vote for.

And worst of all for you SR, you will lose 20 more seats in the House and four more in the Senate.
That's assuming the Iraq violence does not go back up as the majority (not all) of the surge troops come out this summer. If that violence goes back up (and I suspect it will...Bush must as well, since he is too scared to pull all of the surge troops out), they'll lose more seats than that.

Now as far as RushReader backing McCain, that has yet to be admitted to. You see, he trashed McCain back on the "Florida Backs McCain" thread, and has yet to fess up and say he is supporting him. Here's what he said on that thread.

SilentReader wrote:
McCain will not win. We, the conservatives, won't let him. For if he were to win it would destroy the Republican Party and everything it has stood for over the many years.
For all we know, RushReader may be backing the Tooth Fairy for President. Since RushReader lives in the land of make believe, that would not surprise me at all.

McCain has a very good chance to win, but if the neo-cons and social conservatives desert the ship and he loses, we will remake the Party without them. We will not forget that they were fair weather friends.

truthhurts wrote:
BTW, talking about the violence in Iraq picking back up again, it has been in the last few weeks....

The United States broke Iraq, and we can't fix it. The Iraqis have to fix it and we can't do a single thing about the violence until Iraqis want to solve their own problems. That may not happen for a long time, and it may never happen at all. But if Iraqis decide to solve their own problems then they do not need help from the U.S. for their own domestic issues. Our presence in Iraq hasn't solved any of the fundamental problems arising from our invasion of their country, nor can it because the irony is that the U.S. occupation is actually part of the problem.

Occupying Iraq costs the United States $5,000 per second, every minute of every day. The amount of money we spend on just one day of U.S. occupation in Iraq can instead do these things for an entire year:

• Enroll 58,000 more children in head start.


• Give Pell Grants to 153,000 students to attend college.


• Finance 11,000 border patrol agents.


• Put 9,000 additional police officers on the streets.

(From Nicholas Kristof's Column in the NY Times.)

The Truth Typhoon wrote:
SilentReader wrote:


My opinion is that most White people realize that we can't change the past, just as we can't keep carrying the guilt for what our ancestors might have done into all eternity. Not only is that not productive and forward-thinking but it causes us to readily excuse what should not be excused. Like hateful and irrational divisive speech.

In Washington DC there is a museum where the whole theme is "Never Forget." It tells the story of 9 million Jews killed in Germany less than 70 years ago, you might have heard about it. SR, go tell those Jews that they cannot make the Germans "keep carrying the guilt for their ancestors." Tell the Jews that it is not "productive" or "forward-thinking" to keep the memory of the gas chambers alive or the mass graves or the forced labor. Tell them that. Tell them their museum is "hateful" and has "irrational divisive speech."

Yeah, the blacks need to "get over" slavery, the lynchings, the KKK, the disenfranchisement, the segregated military, the back of the bus, the racial slurs, the Whites Only Toilets and a million other injustices. They just need to forget that s*** so they can move "forward." That is the right wing answer to everything.

But for the Jews let them build a museum to tell the world to "never forget" the torture, the gassings, the rapes at the hands of the Nazis.

Yeah, J. Wright said some things that were out of line, and Obama has slammed him for it. But in essence J. Wright was telling his congregation and now all of America, "Never Forget." The Jews were right to remind the world of the injustice done to their people. J. Wright is right to remind the world of the injustice done to blacks in America.

The whites like you who hate Obama used this J. Wright episode to Swift-Boat Obama. You're pissed it did not work. You're angry you won't get to run against HRC this fall since you were all ready with you demon-Hillary ads. You're frightened that your crazy ass old mean tempered McCain is going to get up on stage in the debate this October and spill his load of venom on Obama (just like he did over and over on Mitt this winter). And the American people are going to think, "Man, do I want 4 years of this angry old coot in the White House?" They are going to listen to Obama give a great vision of America's future . . . and they will know who to vote for.

And worst of all for you SR, you will lose 20 more seats in the House and four more in the Senate.

Wow. You sound pretty angry. However, I do admire the fact that you are willing to engage in debating the issues and are not engaging in character assassination as is usually the case with most of the posters here on this board who disagree with you. So, I will attempt to answer your real concerns.

I have never gone to that museum where it's theme is "Never Forget," where it tells the story of the 9 million Jews who were mass-murdered in Germany less than 70 years ago, though I have seen the pictures and it makes me enraged to think about it. And, there is no one that would advocate that we must not forget about man's injustice to their fellow man more than me. No one. If you were to read any of my posts here you would know that. I am still at a loss how man could be so barbaric in the name of ethnic cleansing than they were during those times. We must remember that ethnic cleansing, and any other that have occurred or are occurring, simply because if it could have happened then it could happen again and we must prevent that at all costs.

It is because we should prevent that at all costs that I would like to see those people who spew hate in the name of past injustices be nipped in the bud. We must address what's happening now and not whip up the frenzies of the past to justify perpetuating those frenzies by indulging in words of hatred in the present. That only causes further injustices.

Yes. If something is occurring now that will cause further injustices to be committed we must stop it in the bud, so to speak. Therefore, it is not inconsequential that we bring up the fact that Obama sat in the pews and befriended his pastor for over 20 years and didn't confront him or leave when he was saying things like damn America. Hey, damn those people in the past who committed those crimes when they snatched people from the African continent and brought them over as slaves to be slaves forever. Yes. Damn them. Damn those people who lynched Blacks simply because of the color of their skin. Damn them. But do not damn America for what they did. America is not to blame. And not only one race is to blame either. Things happened during those earlier times that could never happen now. At least we would think they would never happen now. If we remain diligent. And don't say that this American government caused AIDS and purposely perpetuated that desease to eradicate all the Blacks. That's craziness. In other words, inciting people in the here and now by making unbelievable, and quite frankly, ludicrous assertions about people in the present is, to say it politely, not productive. Not forward-thinking.

That is not to say that we forget what happened. (We remember so that we do not ever let what was done in the past be repeated. We remember so as to acknowlege the injustices as well.) That is to say, that we nip things in the bud now, to prevent the past from being recreated.

So, if you think I hate Obama. I do not. What I detest is the fact that he sat in his pastor's pews for 20 years and didn't confront him, or leave. By continuing to sit in those pews he condoned his pastor's hateful words. That is what I hold in great contempt. I hold that sort of behavior in enormous contempt because it is precisely in the condoning of this hate speech that we perpetuate all the hatred that has caused those past atrocious mass-murders and lynchings to occur in the first place. If you don't hold people accountable for their disgusting acts and contemptible words as they occur you are condoning those disgusting acts and contemptible words. If we don't understand that we are never going to eradicate the perversions of the past, and we will be doomed to repeat them.

And, Obama's not recognizing that, is the fatal flaw that Rich Lowry was talking about. The President of the greatest country in the world must be able to recognize that sympathizing with people who use their perceived injustices of the past to justify their perverse behaviors of today is wrong. Dead wrong.

RL and SR are engaged in disingenuous fraud. SR has used that tactic for years here. He, nor does RL, represent the GOP. Conservative values are abhorent to him: he likes large government, large government payrolls, corporate cronyism with government, and international adventurism. All neo-cons do, and that is why they are on the way out.

McCain is going to win, and the neo-cons are going to go bye-bye for good.

RogerWilco wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
BTW, talking about the violence in Iraq picking back up again, it has been in the last few weeks....

The United States broke Iraq, and we can't fix it.

That is ludicrous. Iraq was broken long before we set foot on that bloodied soil where Saddam's henchmen were executing people, hanging, maiming, throwing people off buildings, cutting off their extremities and blowing them up in the middle of the desert.

What we have done is remove a fascist and brutal dictator and allowed the Iraqis to start holding their head high where freedom may now be possible. Where they won't fear being whisked off in the middle of the night, never to be seen again.

Wren wrote:

McCain has a very good chance to win, but if the neo-cons and social conservatives desert the ship and he loses, we will remake the Party without them. We will not forget that they were fair weather friends.

You presume too much.

We are with McCain on the War and on being fiscally concervative. What we were not with him on was McCain-Feingold, immigration, not supporting the tax cuts, and the Gang of 14 (McCain has justifed that by saying he wanted to get things done).

Since he has gained the nomination McCain has stated that he will make permanent the Bush tax cuts, and he will secure the border. I believe him. Whatever McCain is, I think he is a man of his word. And we will hold him to it.