It's a matter or prayer and study, not studying the anti's nonsense, get back with the spirit, and the truth, he'll be ok. That stuff confuses even the elect, he just needs a push to get back on track.

Probably a little repenting needs to happen also, he knows what I mean.

I find your suggestion that I was somehow sinful and that's why I don't believe this to be incredibly condescending and self-righteous. Apparently you feel that anyone who has a different world view than yours must be sinning if he doesn't accept the LDS version of life. And because I was active in the Church and have come to see things differently, and left the Church why that must of course mean I've done something wrong.

And of course you know you're right because the "spirit" told you.

Yeah. That's how it is.

Dubbs wrote:
Should all religions change their sacred buildings "rules" to accomodate the non beleivers? come on dude, your being ridiculous. Get back to church and get worthy bro, you can do it. Give your family a real worthy priesthood holder in their home that they deserve and are begging for in their prayers.

You tell me. The LDS Church seems to come up with revelations to change it's policies and practices.
I have a hard time believing that a "Heavenly Father" would do anything to preclude the extended family from participating in the marriage of it son or daughter.

They've changed the Temple ceremony...
They've given blacks the priesthood (no one told me about that beauty for 3 years after I joined the Church)
They altered their attitude about baptizing the deceased ancestors of jewish holocaust victims
They changed their attitude about polygamy in practice anyway...
Why not this?

It's any Church's choice to do whatever they wish to do. Just know that the rest of the world has a different view of marriage. They see it as an extended family event.

Emerson said, "What you do shouts so loudly I cannot hear what you say."

That the Church is willfully doing something that hurts tens of thousands of people every year begs the question, why would they do it. Knowing the Temple Recommend interview. Someone suggested it's different than my credentials as a parent. I know. And to suggest that those types of questions makes you "worthy" sure diminishes what worthiness is.

This devotion to "the rules", "the way it is" being "temple worthy" is stripping you of "the spirit" and a connection with your own humanity. You might want to take a look at that. I may need counseling to get over my anger but your kind of talk and behavior is what keeps you focused on the letter of the law and not the spirit.

Thanks for your remarks. They've certainly been enlightening.

Life Rocks wrote:
That's not something that is taught to people when they're investigating the Church. As for myself, I was the only member of my family and didn't know my brother was coming to visit.

To say that a child's wedding isn't about the family or the parents or the all the extended family seems crazy. If it's just about the kids, why not exclude everyone from the wedding ceremony worthy or not?

Maybe it's just an LDS way of seeing marriage. Is that it?

I'm not sure this is the place to talk about why I left the Church. It was an excruciating and informed decision. I think that principles are beyond even the Church. I couldn't lie and pretend to be a believer.Why did they choose a temple marriage than over a civil one?

Life Rocks wrote:
That's not something that is taught to people when they're investigating the Church. As for myself, I was the only member of my family and didn't know my brother was coming to visit.

To say that a child's wedding isn't about the family or the parents or the all the extended family seems crazy. If it's just about the kids, why not exclude everyone from the wedding ceremony worthy or not?

Maybe it's just an LDS way of seeing marriage. Is that it?

I'm not sure this is the place to talk about why I left the Church. It was an excruciating and informed decision. I think that principles are beyond even the Church. I couldn't lie and pretend to be a believer.

I would like to clarify what I meant about the marriage being "just about the kids". I apologize for not being clear. Your child and the fiance decided they wanted to be sealed in the temple from the get-go. . .they didn't want a civil ceremony, with a temple sealing a year later. That decision was theirs to make. I'm sure they weighed all the options, plus all family issues that would arise. I would guess they talked with you about this. In any event, that's what I meant -- they (the kids) made the decision.

Life Rocks wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Should all religions change their sacred buildings "rules" to accomodate the non beleivers? come on dude, your being ridiculous. Get back to church and get worthy bro, you can do it. Give your family a real worthy priesthood holder in their home that they deserve and are begging for in their prayers.

You tell me. The LDS Church seems to come up with revelations to change it's policies and practices.
I have a hard time believing that a "Heavenly Father" would do anything to preclude the extended family from participating in the marriage of it son or daughter.

They've changed the Temple ceremony...
They've given blacks the priesthood (no one told me about that beauty for 3 years after I joined the Church)
They altered their attitude about baptizing the deceased ancestors of jewish holocaust victims
They changed their attitude about polygamy in practice anyway...
Why not this?

It's any Church's choice to do whatever they wish to do. Just know that the rest of the world has a different view of marriage. They see it as an extended family event.

Emerson said, "What you do shouts so loudly I cannot hear what you say."

That the Church is willfully doing something that hurts tens of thousands of people every year begs the question, why would they do it. Knowing the Temple Recommend interview. Someone suggested it's different than my credentials as a parent. I know. And to suggest that those types of questions makes you "worthy" sure diminishes what worthiness is.

This devotion to "the rules", "the way it is" being "temple worthy" is stripping you of "the spirit" and a connection with your own humanity. You might want to take a look at that. I may need counseling to get over my anger but your kind of talk and behavior is what keeps you focused on the letter of the law and not the spirit.

Thanks for your remarks. They've certainly been enlightening.

Do you really, really believe the Church "is willfully doing something to hurt tens of thousands of people. . ." by not allowing non-temple-recommend-holding people to enter the temple and participate in the ordinances? All religious faiths have rules, guidelines, commandments, etc. for their faithful to follow. When not followed, there are consequences in this life and in the hereafter.

You have, indeed, been very hurt/disillusioned during your association with the Church and by decisions made by your children. As far as Church disillusionment, you remind me of my father-in-law, though his situation was different. He said he had a testimony, even though his life and introduction to the Church were rough. He always seemed to be looking for "something" to ridicule in the gospel, something that didn't fit into his way of thinking or lifestyle. Everything was the "Church's fault" or the "bishop's fault", etc. I can't even remember how many times he's gone inactive because he didn't like something or someone in the Church, and he would be soooo angry. All we could do as his family was love him, but not let his anger destroy us. Of course, I don't know your situation. . .only bits and pieces from your posts. I guess I would like to know what is really behind your anger. I think it's more than the Church and temple worthiness. But, as you said, this is probably not the place to talk about something that is extremely personal. I wish you well, LifeRocks!

Life Rocks wrote:

It's a matter or prayer and study, not studying the anti's nonsense, get back with the spirit, and the truth, he'll be ok. That stuff confuses even the elect, he just needs a push to get back on track.

Probably a little repenting needs to happen also, he knows what I mean.

I find your suggestion that I was somehow sinful and that's why I don't believe this to be incredibly condescending and self-righteous. Apparently you feel that anyone who has a different world view than yours must be sinning if he doesn't accept the LDS version of life. And because I was active in the Church and have come to see things differently, and left the Church why that must of course mean I've done something wrong.

And of course you know you're right because the "spirit" told you.

Yeah. That's how it is.

Pretty much, What many people do is start to read about Joseph's mistakes and errors in his life and assume this means he wasn't a prophet and the book of Mormon can't then be true. When it is a faulty argument to begin their "search for truth" Joseph and all Prophets have made mistakes, the bible is full of Prophets sinning and making all kinds of errors, being fooled, killing, using their preisthood powers in the wrong way, they are human, we need to give Joseph a break and not let his errors mean everthing he ever taught is false.