Dubbs wrote:
There was a good quote today at church that reminded me of Liferocks, it is that those who are sinning find fault in everything, not just religion, but everthing in their lives. I find this to be true.

Did you find your proof about Sikh, Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindu weddings being restricted?

Oh, and in regards to your quote at church today . . . You must be sinning horrendously, given the amount of fault you find in everyone and anything around here. And you really shouldn't say things like that when you are conducting sacrament meeting. I think President Monson would be very ashamed of the person (YOU) who said it . . . he, unlike you has compassion and class.

Betz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
There was a good quote today at church that reminded me of Liferocks, it is that those who are sinning find fault in everything, not just religion, but everthing in their lives. I find this to be true.

Did you find your proof about Sikh, Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindu weddings being restricted?

Oh, and in regards to your quote at church today . . . You must be sinning horrendously, given the amount of fault you find in everyone and anything around here. And you really shouldn't say things like that when you are conducting sacrament meeting. I think President Monson would be very ashamed of the person (YOU) who said it . . . he, unlike you has compassion and class.

Amen to the last paragraph Betz....... LOL....It is still Sunday.....

I sincerely appreciate the tone of your message. You may think I'm way off base, but there's a tone of a understanding to your message.

I have really struggled with this one. It's obvious I'm pretty frustrated and angry with this. Probably a case of a dream that doesn't come through. I grew up in a culture where marriage is a huge, extended family event so to realize now that because of an act of personal integrity, I'm now to be excluded from all of my children's weddings is a huge disappointment.

Interesting, I was at birthday party for a friend last night. He was raised in the Church...married in the Temple...his kids are now at the age where they're getting married. He and his wife feel the Church isn't what it claims to be, but he goes through the motions, "pretending" so that he can be able to attend the weddings. His parents and sister are active in the Church.

Another friend, who has decided after a mission, marriage, 4 or 5 kids, that he's gay. He was excommunicated, had rejoined the Church with a commitment to not do anything that would mess things up. He's stayed married...pays his tithing and is involved with the Church for the most part so he can attend the weddings of his children. His whole family too is in the Church.

I'm beginning to wonder if the price of integrity is just too much? I suppose I could pretend or lie or maybe tell half truths in a Temple recommend interview.

You used the expression "It was my wedding."
I heard someone else say "it's about the kids".

You say it's what you wanted. Really? It was ok with you for your parents not to be there?

Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of marriage in the LDS Church. I'm not saying that the parents should dictate the event. I'm at loss here...I thought a wedding was about the joining of 2 young people and their families and it was an occasion to celebrate. I'm at a loss as to why and how this silly notion of leaving your family out of the wedding ceremony based on worthiness came about.

My thought was that the qualifications of a parent far surpass any worthiness interview and more than a slip of paper and a few questions about the Church.

And looking back at your wedding day...was your Temple experience all that it was touted to be?

And how did you feel, leaving both of your parents out it? It might be interesting if you haven't yet, to go ask them how they felt about that.

I know another LDS family who's father has been an exceptional dad. He's done so many great things for his kids. One of his sons was killed last year in a tragic accident and now he's become the father figure for his grand daughter. I think he's struggled to pay tithing and was excluded from all of his kids weddings. To me that was such a shame.

One time I was trying to figure a way to teach my kids about business and work so I set up a t-shirt shop for them. One of the things we came up with was a t-shirt that said, "I Got Caught Being A Great Dad!" It was serrendipidous (sp?), silly thing and we'd go around looking for fathers who were spending time with their kids. We'd stop and give them a Great Dad t-shirt. We gave hundreds of these shirts and the response was always the same. Dad's were so blown away...some started crying...some got all choked up. They're magical...wonderfully touching moments.

There are a few moments in life that are so deeply human...part of the family experience.

When you say, "It's my wedding". Certainly that's true.

But I see weddings as an opportunity for families to connect on much deeper level. It's a moment for children to acknowledge their parents for helping them to get to be who there are...and if you have children you know it a "hell" of a project raising kids is. It's so fraught with work and worry and heartache and joy and downright panic at times.

It just seems to me that no organization, (what do I know) that not even the Mormon Church should have as a doctrine, the right to steal that moment from a parent and their children.

The 10 commandments say to "honour your father and mother" and I can hear already someone saying by going to the Temple they did...but how can it honour your parents when it leaves any of them out.

It may well be that those who grow up in an LDS culture where you see this kind of thing all the time are used to it.

After 2 weddings, and feeling so frustrated, I wondered if maybe I was way off base with this so
I started asking people...A LOT of people, some LDS and mostly non-LDS what their thoughts were about parents and bar any abuses against their kids, should there be any restriction at all about attending the weddings.

They were almost confounded wondering why I'd ask a question like that at all, after all, who would exclude the parents from their own kids weddings?
They were astounded to discover the Church does it routinely.

What would I like you to do?

You made a comment "We're not the ones who can change things" or "The change, if it ever happens, would come from SLC, not us." Is that really what Mormons' believe?

I subscribe to a different philosophy now more along the lines of this,

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.” Margaret Mead

As for my daughters, I'm sure they married in the Temple because their parents had instilled in them for years it was the place to do it. Both of them were living in either Utah or Idaho so there's a lot of pressure there too. Even to hurry up and get married. They've all lived in different girls apartments and the fridges were covered with tons of wedding announcements.

I had kept quiet, but I'm not going to any more.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Whether you agree with me or not, thanks again for your thoughtful attitude.

Dubbs wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:
Are you an active LDS? http://www.heraldextra.com/images/fbfiles/images/Blowing_Chunks.gif[/img]


John's active apostate also.

Nope not a member and haven't attend in over 18 years.

Dubbs wrote:
There was a good quote today at church that reminded me of Liferocks, it is that those who are sinning find fault in everything, not just religion, but everthing in their lives. I find this to be true.
You just described yourself, buddy!

Life Rocks wrote:
I sincerely appreciate the tone of your message. You may think I'm way off base, but there's a tone of a understanding to your message.

I have really struggled with this one. It's obvious I'm pretty frustrated and angry with this. Probably a case of a dream that doesn't come through. I grew up in a culture where marriage is a huge, extended family event so to realize now that because of an act of personal integrity, I'm now to be excluded from all of my children's weddings is a huge disappointment.

Interesting, I was at birthday party for a friend last night. He was raised in the Church...married in the Temple...his kids are now at the age where they're getting married. He and his wife feel the Church isn't what it claims to be, but he goes through the motions, "pretending" so that he can be able to attend the weddings. His parents and sister are active in the Church.

Another friend, who has decided after a mission, marriage, 4 or 5 kids, that he's gay. He was excommunicated, had rejoined the Church with a commitment to not do anything that would mess things up. He's stayed married...pays his tithing and is involved with the Church for the most part so he can attend the weddings of his children. His whole family too is in the Church.

I'm beginning to wonder if the price of integrity is just too much? I suppose I could pretend or lie or maybe tell half truths in a Temple recommend interview.

You used the expression "It was my wedding."
I heard someone else say "it's about the kids".

You say it's what you wanted. Really? It was ok with you for your parents not to be there?

Maybe I'm not understanding the concept of marriage in the LDS Church. I'm not saying that the parents should dictate the event. I'm at loss here...I thought a wedding was about the joining of 2 young people and their families and it was an occasion to celebrate. I'm at a loss as to why and how this silly notion of leaving your family out of the wedding ceremony based on worthiness came about.

My thought was that the qualifications of a parent far surpass any worthiness interview and more than a slip of paper and a few questions about the Church.

And looking back at your wedding day...was your Temple experience all that it was touted to be?

And how did you feel, leaving both of your parents out it? It might be interesting if you haven't yet, to go ask them how they felt about that.

I know another LDS family who's father has been an exceptional dad. He's done so many great things for his kids. One of his sons was killed last year in a tragic accident and now he's become the father figure for his grand daughter. I think he's struggled to pay tithing and was excluded from all of his kids weddings. To me that was such a shame.

One time I was trying to figure a way to teach my kids about business and work so I set up a t-shirt shop for them. One of the things we came up with was a t-shirt that said, "I Got Caught Being A Great Dad!" It was serrendipidous (sp?), silly thing and we'd go around looking for fathers who were spending time with their kids. We'd stop and give them a Great Dad t-shirt. We gave hundreds of these shirts and the response was always the same. Dad's were so blown away...some started crying...some got all choked up. They're magical...wonderfully touching moments.

There are a few moments in life that are so deeply human...part of the family experience.

When you say, "It's my wedding". Certainly that's true.

But I see weddings as an opportunity for families to connect on much deeper level. It's a moment for children to acknowledge their parents for helping them to get to be who there are...and if you have children you know it a "hell" of a project raising kids is. It's so fraught with work and worry and heartache and joy and downright panic at times.

It just seems to me that no organization, (what do I know) that not even the Mormon Church should have as a doctrine, the right to steal that moment from a parent and their children.

The 10 commandments say to "honour your father and mother" and I can hear already someone saying by going to the Temple they did...but how can it honour your parents when it leaves any of them out.

It may well be that those who grow up in an LDS culture where you see this kind of thing all the time are used to it.

After 2 weddings, and feeling so frustrated, I wondered if maybe I was way off base with this so
I started asking people...A LOT of people, some LDS and mostly non-LDS what their thoughts were about parents and bar any abuses against their kids, should there be any restriction at all about attending the weddings.

They were almost confounded wondering why I'd ask a question like that at all, after all, who would exclude the parents from their own kids weddings?
They were astounded to discover the Church does it routinely.

What would I like you to do?

You made a comment "We're not the ones who can change things" or "The change, if it ever happens, would come from SLC, not us." Is that really what Mormons' believe?

I subscribe to a different philosophy now more along the lines of this,

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.” Margaret Mead

As for my daughters, I'm sure they married in the Temple because their parents had instilled in them for years it was the place to do it. Both of them were living in either Utah or Idaho so there's a lot of pressure there too. Even to hurry up and get married. They've all lived in different girls apartments and the fridges were covered with tons of wedding announcements.

I had kept quiet, but I'm not going to any more.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Whether you agree with me or not, thanks again for your thoughtful attitude.
I am going to assume that from what you've said here, you are responding to me.

My parents were at my Temple wedding, although they almost could not go. They told me that if they were there or not, I was to go ahead and marry in the Temple if that was what I really wanted. It was. But the situation changed, and my parents were there. Yes, my Temple wedding was everything, and more, that I dreamed it would be. It was performed by one of the Apostles, whom I had asked months before. Not sure they do that now, though.

I stand by my statement that change WILL come from SLC if it comes. If you were active at one time, then that is something you should understand. Revelation, and such, you know.

I also stand by my statement that it was THEIR wedding and it was THEIR choice on where to marry. I can tell you in all honesty that if my parents were inactive, and would have felt as you do, then I would have married in their back yard garden. Seriously! I could always go to the temple later. I believe that family comes first, not the Church, and that's why I'm so certain that I would have done it that way if needed.

Dubs opinion be damned, I seriously think your children should have considered your feelings when they were planning their weddings. I'm thankful I wasn't so "brainwashed" that it was "the temple or nothing".

Again, how do your children feel about your pain and anger? This is a question I, and several others, have asked. You seem to be avoiding answering this one. Not sure it's intentional though.