Dubbs wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:

If the idea of a Temple recommend was instituted after polygamy was adopted and the Church no longer practices it what would it hurt to allow all family members to attend the weddings of it's children?

This is another example that you don't really understand LDS doctrine, as we believe Temples have been around since the days of Adam and Eve in some form, as has polygamy in Old Testement times. That you say "the church" adopted practices in Josephs day shows you really don't have a grasp of LDS beleifs in full. Which I find typical of those who leave the faith, they study the anti side more than they do their own faith. Your more proof.

Dubs, please don't lecture on things you do not unuderstand.

JLD wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:
"Again, how do your children feel about your pain and anger? This is a question I, and several others, have asked. You seem to be avoiding answering this one. Not sure it's intentional though."

I'm not sure what you meant by your parents "almost could not go in." Would it still have been as wonderful without them?

My kids are caught between the "rules" and "what to do with dad".

I've really been pretty gracious about it. I stand through the wedding lines laughing and joking with the guests. I cry through the father-daughter dance with them. Perhaps I should just focus on that and be happy with that. Somehow it feels really terrible to be left out.

I understand, Temple marriages are such a huge part of the LDS culture that they are more inclined to "blindly" or "obediently" follow the rules without question and without consideration to anyone else. That was the part that was the most hard to believe.

I'm sure I'm not the only one offended by this practice.

A few years back one of my teenage daughters (not the one's who were married) became pregnant and after months of doctors appointments and walks with her, I ended up as her birth coach. The first night the little guy slept on my chest. The next day the Church swooped in placed him with another family. It's an open adoption. The parents named him an common name, but a name that I see the name everywhere every day.

So now I have these two weddings I didn't get to go to.

Weddings and grandchildren are suppose to be, I thought for a parent, to be something joyful.
So far I'm 0-3.

I'm so sick of the Church's heavy handed intrusion into my personal life.
Wait a minute, now. So far, I've felt for you. But taking the approach of blaming the Church for the adoption isn't going to cut it with me. You daughter had alot to do with that. Quite a bit, I'm sure.

You're going to remain focused on what you didn't get to do instead of what you have. Perhaps you want to focus on the negative because it feeds your bitterness. I just don't know. But as I said, I felt for you until you blamed the church for the adoption. I am very well acquainted with the guy in charge of LDS Social Services in my area (Ogden). You make it sound as if they grabbed the baby right out from under your daughter, against her wishes. Once more, you are absolving your daughers of any fault/blame/whatever. My daughter, too, had a baby out of wedlock. The church was there to support her, NOT take her baby.

My parents "almost" couldn't go because they were not paying their tithe due to a fianancial issue. They were church goers, though. In the end, the Bishop granted them a one-day recommend.

As far as I'm concerned, this issue is talked out. I DO feel for you in missing the weddings, but YOU REFUSE TO PUT ANY 'BLAME' ON YOUR GIRLS. I've asked you many times, HOW DO THEY FEEL ABOUT YOUR PAIN. So far, no answer. Until you do that, this converstation is going nowhere.

Amen KitKat. Once again you are saying just what I was thinking.
Thanks, JLD. More than once, you too have said exactly what I was thinking.

Dubbs wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:
A religious organization has pushed me out of the way,

Acutally, that was your decision, you have a blame others complex. Your ex-wife says this about you dosen't she? Be honest with yourself.


I'm delusional yet it's the Church that teaches you your underwear will protect you.

I'm out of touch and Utah has the highest use of anti-depression medication in the country.

I'm needing help and Utah has one of the highest rates of bankruptcy in the country.

Things that make you go hmmmm?

You're right, this isn't the forum to take this concern.

Gasp, the church must not be true!! The things people find to leave the church over. Tell us, what is the real sin behind you leaving?

Dubs, what is your real sin that keeps you from living the standards of the LDS church and its doctrine. It must be a doozy because of the hate and bigotry that you exhibit to all.

Life Rocks wrote:
"Again, how do your children feel about your pain and anger? This is a question I, and several others, have asked. You seem to be avoiding answering this one. Not sure it's intentional though."

I'm not sure what you meant by your parents "almost could not go in." Would it still have been as wonderful without them?

My kids are caught between the "rules" and "what to do with dad".

I've really been pretty gracious about it. I stand through the wedding lines laughing and joking with the guests. I cry through the father-daughter dance with them. Perhaps I should just focus on that and be happy with that. Somehow it feels really terrible to be left out.

I understand, Temple marriages are such a huge part of the LDS culture that they are more inclined to "blindly" or "obediently" follow the rules without question and without consideration to anyone else. That was the part that was the most hard to believe.

I'm sure I'm not the only one offended by this practice.

A few years back one of my teenage daughters (not the one's who were married) became pregnant and after months of doctors appointments and walks with her, I ended up as her birth coach. The first night the little guy slept on my chest. The next day the Church swooped in placed him with another family. It's an open adoption. The parents named him an common name, but a name that I see the name everywhere every day.

So now I have these two weddings I didn't get to go to.

Weddings and grandchildren are suppose to be, I thought for a parent, to be something joyful.
So far I'm 0-3.

I'm so sick of the Church's heavy handed intrusion into my personal life.

The LDS church provides a temple marriage ceremony. Like all things temple related you have to have a temple recommend to enter.

The LDS church doesn't demand or force you to marry in the temple. It is the preferred method, it is what LDS church members are raised to believe is the right thing to do, but in the end it is NOT forced upon anyone. You can still get a temple sealing later. If you choose to pursue a temple marriage then you cannot blame the LDS church for the rules...you are asking them to be married in their temple, not being forced into it. That is what I think about that in a nutshell.

Now, there is NOTHING preventing your child from having a second ceremony for everyone to take part in. You haven't addressed this at all but it is common (at least I've heard of it being done in case you haven't).

Dubbs wrote:
By the way, the Sikh and the hindus and Jewish temples, and Buddist all have similar beliefs, why not start a world wide whine fest?

Here is another example that Dubs has no idea of others' religions, doctrines, etc.

Go ahead, podjo, show us how they have "similar beliefs" in terms of temples and worship.

Dubbs wrote:
Betz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
By the way, the Sikh and the hindus and Jewish temples, and Buddist all have similar beliefs, why not start a world wide whine fest?

Are you saying that Jewish couples get married in a temple and their non-Jewish friends or family cannot attend?

Because there is nothing about that here:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/marriage.html#Ceremony

Nor the Sikhs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/sikhism/ritesrituals/weddings.shtml


Nor the Buddhists

http://www.matrimonialsindia.com/help/buddhist.php
http://www.salemstate.edu/imc/vietnam/ceremony.html

Nor Hindus

http://www.vivaaha.org/the.htm


They get married in a temple, and their is rules to enter, so yes, they all have similar rules as Mormons.

There are rules to enter a Masonic temple, so by your logic we can consider Masonic temples "similar" to Mormon temples.