We know a wonderful woman from Kaysville, who, at 23, was preparing for marriage. She was temple worthy, he was temple worthy, but her father had never been a member of the LDS church.

Her bishop told her that her duty was to go to the temple.

She told him to butt out, that she had praying about the matter, and that the Holy Spirit informed her that her duty was to honor her father who had supported her finacially and emotionally all of her life, that she owed it to him and to God to make sure that the father could be there for her wedding.

She married civilly and was sealed in the temple a year later.

In my opinion, she acted like a true Christian.

Jaye wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:
That's not something that is taught to people when they're investigating the Church. As for myself, I was the only member of my family and didn't know my brother was coming to visit.

To say that a child's wedding isn't about the family or the parents or the all the extended family seems crazy. If it's just about the kids, why not exclude everyone from the wedding ceremony worthy or not?

Maybe it's just an LDS way of seeing marriage. Is that it?

I'm not sure this is the place to talk about why I left the Church. It was an excruciating and informed decision. I think that principles are beyond even the Church. I couldn't lie and pretend to be a believer.

I would like to clarify what I meant about the marriage being "just about the kids". I apologize for not being clear. Your child and the fiance decided they wanted to be sealed in the temple from the get-go. . .they didn't want a civil ceremony, with a temple sealing a year later. That decision was theirs to make. I'm sure they weighed all the options, plus all family issues that would arise. I would guess they talked with you about this. In any event, that's what I meant -- they (the kids) made the decision.

"And the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers".

The Church makes much of this verse.

In D&C Section 27, verse 9, it is written that regarding Elijah..."unto whom I have committed the keys of the power of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to the fathers, that the whole earth may not be smitten with a curse."

I have been asked, from time to time, why I believe some doctrines, and some scriptures and disregard others.

My answer was, and remains...inasmuch as a principle, a doctrine, or a scripture is beneficial, and lifts the hearts of mankind, and does NOT cause harm, injury, or broken hearts...I will believe that it is of God.

But that which I can clearly see causes harm, and injury, and heartache...I do NOT believe it is of God.

I cannot see where God would readily deny a mother and father from witnessing a wedding ceremony for their sons and/or daughters.

And I cannot see why, as the Mormons hold the inner-sanctum of the Temple to be sacrosanct...and only the worthy might enter...they do not provide for the comfort and loving fellowship of non-member parents, siblings, relatives and friends by allowing a separate ceremony or even a simple exchange of vows.

This would serve, indeed, toward keeping the hearts of the children turned toward their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers turned toward their children...as the LDS Church professes is the whole point of Celestial Marriage and eternal bonds of the family.

I agree with KitKat. . .this topic has been talked out. I said this a few days ago, but here I am again.

The scripture quoted from the D&C about Elijah, Jaye, is not about honoring your parents by doing things that will make them happy (having a civil ceremony or anything else, for that matter). That scripture deals with doing ordinance work for our dead ancestors in the temple so we can all be sealed, or live together, for eternity. Without the ordinance work and sealings, we would not have our family in the eternities, that being the "curse".

I would like to know where LifeRocks wife is, and her feelings about the difficulties I'm sure this family is enduring.

Jaye, your posts are usually very thoughtful. However, you said something that bothers me, and please correct me if I misinterpreted your words. So, you believe in scripture/doctrine if it appeals to you, and then disregard the rest without thought about being accountable for that disregard? Are you a member of the church in good standing?

Then, ThomasK (or JLD) has written very well some of the same thoughts I've had, and he's not a member of the church. (Did I get that right, ThomasK?) AND, please don't shoot me, I've even agreed with Dubbs, even though the delivery of his thoughts have made me flinch. As for LifeRocks, I commented a couple of days ago with no response from you about what this is REALLY all about. I sincerely don't think this whole marriage issue is really what is wrong in your life. If you have listened to the Brethren over the years of your membership in the church (and you are still a member), you will know they have said from the pulpit at General Conference that if you are unhappy in any aspect of your life, it's because there are commandments and doctrines you are not following. Dubbs said this. (Dubbs, work on your delivery.)

We've been dancing all around LifeRocks, trying to help him and trying not to offend. We can be compassionate, loving, etc., but to be truthful, now I'm offended that what I hold dear and true (the gospel/doctrines of the Church) is being trivialized because LifeRocks feels picked on because he couldn't participate in his childrens' sealings, AGAIN, the type of marriage THEY CHOSE. LifeRocks, you knew your children would marry one day. I believe you had plenty of time to start from scratch as any investigator or inactive-person-wanting-to-get-active starts from scratch learning about the gospel to gain a testimony. I hope your unmarried children aren't dreading their wedding day. Hopefully, they won't change their minds about a temple sealing up front and not a year later to accommodate your life choices.

Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:
That's not something that is taught to people when they're investigating the Church. As for myself, I was the only member of my family and didn't know my brother was coming to visit.

To say that a child's wedding isn't about the family or the parents or the all the extended family seems crazy. If it's just about the kids, why not exclude everyone from the wedding ceremony worthy or not?

Maybe it's just an LDS way of seeing marriage. Is that it?

I'm not sure this is the place to talk about why I left the Church. It was an excruciating and informed decision. I think that principles are beyond even the Church. I couldn't lie and pretend to be a believer.

I would like to clarify what I meant about the marriage being "just about the kids". I apologize for not being clear. Your child and the fiance decided they wanted to be sealed in the temple from the get-go. . .they didn't want a civil ceremony, with a temple sealing a year later. That decision was theirs to make. I'm sure they weighed all the options, plus all family issues that would arise. I would guess they talked with you about this. In any event, that's what I meant -- they (the kids) made the decision.

"And the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers".

The Church makes much of this verse.

In D&C Section 27, verse 9, it is written that regarding Elijah..."unto whom I have committed the keys of the power of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to the fathers, that the whole earth may not be smitten with a curse."

I have been asked, from time to time, why I believe some doctrines, and some scriptures and disregard others.

My answer was, and remains...inasmuch as a principle, a doctrine, or a scripture is beneficial, and lifts the hearts of mankind, and does NOT cause harm, injury, or broken hearts...I will believe that it is of God.

But that which I can clearly see causes harm, and injury, and heartache...I do NOT believe it is of God.

I cannot see where God would readily deny a mother and father from witnessing a wedding ceremony for their sons and/or daughters.

And I cannot see why, as the Mormons hold the inner-sanctum of the Temple to be sacrosanct...and only the worthy might enter...they do not provide for the comfort and loving fellowship of non-member parents, siblings, relatives and friends by allowing a separate ceremony or even a simple exchange of vows.

This would serve, indeed, toward keeping the hearts of the children turned toward their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers turned toward their children...as the LDS Church professes is the whole point of Celestial Marriage and eternal bonds of the family.

I agree with KitKat. . .this topic has been talked out. I said this a few days ago, but here I am again.

The scripture quoted from the D&C about Elijah, Jaye, is not about honoring your parents by doing things that will make them happy (having a civil ceremony or anything else, for that matter). That scripture deals with doing ordinance work for our dead ancestors in the temple so we can all be sealed, or live together, for eternity. Without the ordinance work and sealings, we would not have our family in the eternities, that being the "curse".

I would like to know where LifeRocks wife is, and her feelings about the difficulties I'm sure this family is enduring.

Jaye, your posts are usually very thoughtful. However, you said something that bothers me, and please correct me if I misinterpreted your words. So, you believe in scripture/doctrine if it appeals to you, and then disregard the rest without thought about being accountable for that disregard? Are you a member of the church in good standing?

Then, ThomasK (or JLD) has written very well some of the same thoughts I've had, and he's not a member of the church. (Did I get that right, ThomasK?) AND, please don't shoot me, I've even agreed with Dubbs, even though the delivery of his thoughts have made me flinch. As for LifeRocks, I commented a couple of days ago with no response from you about what this is REALLY all about. I sincerely don't think this whole marriage issue is really what is wrong in your life. If you have listened to the Brethren over the years of your membership in the church (and you are still a member), you will know they have said from the pulpit at General Conference that if you are unhappy in any aspect of your life, it's because there are commandments and doctrines you are not following. Dubbs said this. (Dubbs, work on your delivery.)

We've been dancing all around LifeRocks, trying to help him and trying not to offend. We can be compassionate, loving, etc., but to be truthful, now I'm offended that what I hold dear and true (the gospel/doctrines of the Church) is being trivialized because LifeRocks feels picked on because he couldn't participate in his childrens' sealings, AGAIN, the type of marriage THEY CHOSE. LifeRocks, you knew your children would marry one day. I believe you had plenty of time to start from scratch as any investigator or inactive-person-wanting-to-get-active starts from scratch learning about the gospel to gain a testimony. I hope your unmarried children aren't dreading their wedding day. Hopefully, they won't change their minds about a temple sealing up front and not a year later to accommodate your life choices.

I think you've made some interesting points and raised some valid questions to Life Rocks.

For clarification, I believe ThomasK is an active member of the LDS Church. I'm not active, but was raised in the LDS faith by my family...which is about a 50/50 split active LDS.

For those whom are active LDS I could see that it would be offensive to think they should go against what they feel is the requirements of their Faith in God to make sure they don't hurt someone else's feelings - even if that person is your parent. I believe that there has to be a point where you say that religion and family must take separate roads (if one is holding the other back) in the scheme of salvation. Surely this is a matter of personal opinion though. However, if God has set certain tasks to achieve exaltation I don't think that stating it would hurt my family's feelings is going to be a good excuse.

I've said this before - I think that those who believe in temple marriage and sealing believe it strongly enough that they appreciate the sanctity of the event and understand why it cannot be open to just anyone, parent or otherwise, if they do not live in a lifestyle that allows for a temple recommend. Life Rocks can blame the LDS Church for his hurt feelings but it would seem to me that that isn't being entirely fair.

Let me say, I certainly appreciate all the comments made here...pro or con...whether you agree with me or not...you took some time out of your valuable lives to respond.

I'm really going to take to heart the suggestions you've made here. I think I got out of this what I came for.

I don't have the same belief about the Church as I did. I guess it's because I see all of us as human beings first, as children of God then after that whatever religion you want to subscribe to.
I find religious belief as a source of problems in the world when we have so much more in common as human beings.

The ritual exists for the people. Without the people all religious organizations cease to exist. We create ritual to add meaning to our lives. I find fault with the Church for having this kind of practice at all. It seems so scathingly cruel.

I have a tough time imagining someone you respect called "God the Father" allowing such an event to take place wouldn't include everyone. It's a family event.

The thought occurs to me...Have any of you actually been to a non LDS wedding? Perhaps I shouldn't assume anything here.

And worse yet, the members have become so accustomed to not challenging anything the Church leaders teach, they willing accept it.

I support an organization where we go to Mexico regularly to build homes for the homeless. (you want a wildly amazing life changing experience check out www.corazon.org--crazy fun!)I took all of my children many times so they could see what service looked like and actually participate in it.

I had a belief about what marriage is and had some expectations about how things would be. When I left the Church, I hadn't thought about what was coming down the pike. I've never been to another LDS wedding ceremony other than my own.

I was told as the father of my home that I held some important place. I saw all of these people who had been my friends, including my wife and children leave me behind. I've never felt so much rejection in my life. I wonder how you feel about going to a wedding ceremony that a parent has been excluded from going to?

When you pass the mother on your way into the temple, how do you feel about that?

I guess "if God has set certain tasks to achieve exaltation" and it brings up this kind of conflict where you have to choose between a religious ceremony and your loved ones who have done nothing wrong...I'd be wondering if what I was doing really was "a task to achieve exaltation." My opinion.

Some have asked if I had talked to my daughters about this. I was disappointed with my wife and my kids too. My whole life I've always put them first. Because I had a really lousy home life, I went to great lengths to do much more. I rearranged my life to be an attentive, available, involved dad. What this experience tells me is that no matter what you say or do for your wife or kids matters. There's nothing in my life or world that I value that I would have picked my over my kids (LDS Church included).

I'm wondering what all of you will do if and when the Church decides on some new doctrine that you find as difficult to live as polygamy was for the early Saints?

As for ring ceremonies or second services...they sort of did something like that. Sure made me feel special. makes me wonder who made up the "one year waiting rule"?

There's no question, sometimes in life you make some choices and there are a lot of "unintended consequences" that follow that you can't see at the time you make the original choice. I made some choices in my life early on about believing the "brethren" that I'm paying a price for.

All of your lives matter.
It'll be over before we know it.
Make the most of the time you have here on this planet.
Honour your parents.
Make a difference.
Do something great and wonderful with your lives.

Thanks again for your comments.

Wren wrote:
We know a wonderful woman from Kaysville, who, at 23, was preparing for marriage. She was temple worthy, he was temple worthy, but her father had never been a member of the LDS church.

Her bishop told her that her duty was to go to the temple.

She told him to butt out, that she had praying about the matter, and that the Holy Spirit informed her that her duty was to honor her father who had supported her finacially and emotionally all of her life, that she owed it to him and to God to make sure that the father could be there for her wedding.

She married civilly and was sealed in the temple a year later.

In my opinion, she acted like a true Christian.

I see nothing wrong with that, but to each their own, I'm sure Life Rocks children had their reasons. Maybe they don't get along with their Dad? And didn't really want his bitterness towards the church around them? Possible.

Girl Raised in the South wrote:
[Jaye, your posts are usually very thoughtful. However, you said something that bothers me, and please correct me if I misinterpreted your words. So, you believe in scripture/doctrine if it appeals to you, and then disregard the rest without thought about being accountable for that disregard? Are you a member of the church in good standing? '


Don't try to figure out Jaye, His beliefs are so full of contradiction it's impossible. He says he believes in the BofM, but then says things were inserted by Joseph for his own purposes, He claims to not believe in all of the D&C, yet follows the word of wisdom, except he drinks actual alchoholic wine for his sacrament, he thinks the Prophets are in apostacy in many areas, He can't really answer all the temple questions correctly, but claims to have a recommend. I could go on, but he's one of the fanatical outliers every church has.