truthhurts wrote:
KitKat wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
Not an easy thing to go through, and I have always, even when I was active LDS, thought the stance odd. In fact, I find it very perplexing for a Church that likes to extol itself as pro-family, etc. The Church gives conditional use recommends (not sure if that is the name, but it is the purpose) to youth in order to perform baptisms for the dead, otherwise they could not get in. So, it could be done regarding weddings, which makes one wonder if something else is the real motive, like....

money, aka tithing. Yes, money talks.

That said, I think your children have a say as well. They could simply do a civil wedding and do the Temple thing in a year, and I believe if more did that, the Church's stance might change. The Church frowns on that, but tough. Let 'em frown. So, go ahead and blame the Church if it makes you feel better, but realize that your kids are complicit in it.
Money talks? I'm not so sure. When I married in the temple, my parents weren't tithe payers due to a temporary financial difficulty. They were given a conditional temple recommend, good for my wedding only. I don't know if that's still done or what, but in my case, money DIDN'T talk.
One question. Were your folks endowed, i.e. had they been through the Temple before? Sounds like the answer is yes, and if they had a sympathetic Bishop and SP, then I can see that happening and I think it is great. Other Bishop's and SP's might not be so lenient.

The ladies situation is completely different than that.
Yes, my parents were already endowed. We did have a wonderful, understanding Bishop and SP. I do wish conditional recommends could/would be given out more. If the person is in pretty good standing, what can it hurt to let the parents in for one day?

Yes, this other ladies situation is different. However, HER OWN children made the choice to marry in the temple. Yelling at us isn't going to change that.

Life Rocks wrote:
Thanks for taking your time to comment. I can see we don't agree here, but you're certainly are welcome to your opinion.

You forget, you're not talking just to me as one person. Tell your "you need serious help" advice to the tens of thousands of people who are affected by this practice. That your Church has such a cruel doctrine and that you follow it says more about you than me.

Most people in the world, if they're doing something that offends or hurts another will stop doing it or change something to accommodate the other. I think being able to attend the marriage of your children is something that should not be denied the family. Most people outside your community believe that. Maybe you should notice that.

Just like when the Church was baptizing for the dead for the Jewish Holocaust victims. The relatives were outraged and hurt by the practice. The Church recognized that their practice was pretty callous and insensitive so they stopped. The same insensitivity is occurring here on a much larger scale and involving many more people.

I don't know if the Church did it voluntarily or if there were Jewish groups who put some serious media pressure on the Church. Seems like that's what it takes to get the "true Church" to reconsider it's stance on things.

Given the recent situation with the FLDS Church, seems that had the Church not been forced to change it's attitude about polygamy, it wouldn't have done so willingly.

If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. Let the court of public opinion decide this one.

I guess this is some of the meat they were referring to when I was investigating the Church years ago that they figured I'd discover later.

Got a good reference for a shrink to give me the help I need?

So you raised your children LDS and now they are offending you. Nice dad.

My parents are not LDS. Before I was married I took them to a Temple open house. They were shown every room and every ordinance performed there. Including the Sealing room. They knew exactly what was performed. The day of the wedding they were treated with just as much respect as anyone else. And THEY were just respectful themselves. They didn't sit in a corner and pout. So excuse me if I have a hard time with your "poor me" offended story.

You want to run around looking for someone to sympathize with you go right ahead. It doesn't change the attitude you are showing your children. You don't think they can see it in you? Try thinking about them instead of yourself. In none of your ranting have you shown any compassion for them, only your own self centered opinion.




As long as your on a crusade why don't crusade for all those Catholic dads that get bent out shape if their child marries a Protestant. And how about all those Jewish dads if their child marries a Christian. And let's not leave out a Muslim dad for their child marrying a Hindu.
Get the picture?

Seriously, LifeRocks. . .Any member of the church, active or inactive, KNOWS entrance into the temple is based on worthiness, and you KNOW there are commandments and covenants you have to be upholding to participate in temple ceremonies. Endowed, recommend-holding members are able to attend marriage ceremonies. This is not new doctrine, nor is it a new rule. (Teenagers doing baptisms are in a different part of the temple, and do not have the same recommend.)

That said, with good intentions and no disrespect on my part to you, I am asking you, why didn't you do whatever you needed to do in good faith to be able to participate in your child's temple sealing? Your child made a conscious decision to be sealed to someone for time and eternity in the temple, and you are turning that special day into something, I bet, that is causing contention in your family. You're hurt, but a child's wedding day is not about the parent. Look to yourself on this one.

KitKat wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
KitKat wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
Not an easy thing to go through, and I have always, even when I was active LDS, thought the stance odd. In fact, I find it very perplexing for a Church that likes to extol itself as pro-family, etc. The Church gives conditional use recommends (not sure if that is the name, but it is the purpose) to youth in order to perform baptisms for the dead, otherwise they could not get in. So, it could be done regarding weddings, which makes one wonder if something else is the real motive, like....

money, aka tithing. Yes, money talks.

That said, I think your children have a say as well. They could simply do a civil wedding and do the Temple thing in a year, and I believe if more did that, the Church's stance might change. The Church frowns on that, but tough. Let 'em frown. So, go ahead and blame the Church if it makes you feel better, but realize that your kids are complicit in it.
Money talks? I'm not so sure. When I married in the temple, my parents weren't tithe payers due to a temporary financial difficulty. They were given a conditional temple recommend, good for my wedding only. I don't know if that's still done or what, but in my case, money DIDN'T talk.
One question. Were your folks endowed, i.e. had they been through the Temple before? Sounds like the answer is yes, and if they had a sympathetic Bishop and SP, then I can see that happening and I think it is great. Other Bishop's and SP's might not be so lenient.

The ladies situation is completely different than that.
Yes, my parents were already endowed. We did have a wonderful, understanding Bishop and SP. I do wish conditional recommends could/would be given out more. If the person is in pretty good standing, what can it hurt to let the parents in for one day?

Yes, this other ladies situation is different. However, HER OWN children made the choice to marry in the temple. Yelling at us isn't going to change that.

KitKat. . .I know you're a member of the church, and I believe you're an active member from your posts. However, you know we can't be in "pretty good standing" to enter the temple and participate in temple ceremonies. We are either keeping our covenants, or we're not, We're either paying a full tithe, or we're not, etc., etc. A sympathetic bishop or stake president who says "OK, just this once" about participating in a sacred temple ordinance is doing that member a disservice. Members shouldn't put their priesthood leaders in that position, and priesthood leaders shouldn't encourage members to cheat a little on their worthiness. Life perfection is not a requirement for temple attendance, but at least a very, very conscious and consistent effort in keeping commandments and covenants is.

JLD wrote:
[ It is NOT about them...or is it?

His anger should be at his kids for having the audacity and courage to stand by something they believe in, no matter how there Dad freaks out. Those awful kids.

Girl Raised in the South wrote:
KitKat wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
KitKat wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
Not an easy thing to go through, and I have always, even when I was active LDS, thought the stance odd. In fact, I find it very perplexing for a Church that likes to extol itself as pro-family, etc. The Church gives conditional use recommends (not sure if that is the name, but it is the purpose) to youth in order to perform baptisms for the dead, otherwise they could not get in. So, it could be done regarding weddings, which makes one wonder if something else is the real motive, like....

money, aka tithing. Yes, money talks.

That said, I think your children have a say as well. They could simply do a civil wedding and do the Temple thing in a year, and I believe if more did that, the Church's stance might change. The Church frowns on that, but tough. Let 'em frown. So, go ahead and blame the Church if it makes you feel better, but realize that your kids are complicit in it.
Money talks? I'm not so sure. When I married in the temple, my parents weren't tithe payers due to a temporary financial difficulty. They were given a conditional temple recommend, good for my wedding only. I don't know if that's still done or what, but in my case, money DIDN'T talk.
One question. Were your folks endowed, i.e. had they been through the Temple before? Sounds like the answer is yes, and if they had a sympathetic Bishop and SP, then I can see that happening and I think it is great. Other Bishop's and SP's might not be so lenient.

The ladies situation is completely different than that.
Yes, my parents were already endowed. We did have a wonderful, understanding Bishop and SP. I do wish conditional recommends could/would be given out more. If the person is in pretty good standing, what can it hurt to let the parents in for one day?

Yes, this other ladies situation is different. However, HER OWN children made the choice to marry in the temple. Yelling at us isn't going to change that.

KitKat. . .I know you're a member of the church, and I believe you're an active member from your posts. However, you know we can't be in "pretty good standing" to enter the temple and participate in temple ceremonies. We are either keeping our covenants, or we're not, We're either paying a full tithe, or we're not, etc., etc. A sympathetic bishop or stake president who says "OK, just this once" about participating in a sacred temple ordinance is doing that member a disservice. Members shouldn't put their priesthood leaders in that position, and priesthood leaders shouldn't encourage members to cheat a little on their worthiness. Life perfection is not a requirement for temple attendance, but at least a very, very conscious and consistent effort in keeping commandments and covenants is.
I understand what you're saying. By being in "pretty good standing" I'm not sure I meant what you think I did. My parents were active in the church, but as much as I can remember of it, they weren't paying tithe at the time due to a financial difficulty they were having. And that was the ONLY convenant they were not keeping. My parents did not ask for this conditional recommend. I was prepared to be married without them there, with their full support. A couple weeks before, the bishop himself approached my parents at church and asked if they were planning to get a recommend. And it went from there. I know they can't hand these kind of recommends out to anyone who asks. But I do think they are good in special circumstances.

For what it's worth, right after this happened, my parents did start paying tithe again and got their regular recommend back. It may have been the little "push" they needed. But whatever it was, I'm grateful to that Bishop. Some thirty years later, he and I are still very close. The good that came from him giving my parents that recommend has lasted to this day (there's more, which I'm not putting in here). That's why I say it can be good in some circumstances.