Life Rocks wrote:
As for a lawsuit...I'm not sure.

I get so sick of the "freedom of religion" garbage.

This current situation with the FLDS church is so typical. The LDS/FLDS has a 90 year common history and the LDS Church tries to divorce itself of it as if there was no association to the FLDS Church exists at all yet there would be no FLDS Church without the LDS Church.

The founding fathers decided to allow people the freedom to worship without government intervention and the people of all these faiths keep pushing the line of stupidity farther and farther expecting everyone else to accommodate you just because you believe something.

Then Church's hide behind their tax free status to grow to such gigantic proportions. The LDS Church isn't a religion, it's a massive business with free labor with vast real estate holdings.... broadcasting company... insurance company... travel company...a chain of bookstores... publishing company... banks...department stores...universities with rental properties to get even more money.
ll that and no accountability.
Call it for what it is.

Why it concerns me is that even in the bible we are told that salvation should be available "without price". The Church is more concerned about money and expanding the empire than about it's people.

All I wanted to do as my children's father (not like I'm crashing a strangers wedding) is to get to see them get married and you and your lousy rotten Church say no.

I admit, I made a huge mistake getting so involved in the Church. It's been a very painful and regretable situation.

The affect? All I had hoped for was to accommodate in some way those you and your Church hurt.

You said, "You appear to believe that everyone within the Church membership goes blithely along with everything the Church decides."

To that I reply, look at the result and ask yourself what part you have in this? If you say nothing, always following the teachings of your leaders then I guess that includes you.

If the Church is true it needn't hide behind telling the members not to criticize. Seems here, anyone of the leaders says anything and there's seldom a time when anyone calls them on anything.

I remember as a young missionary I was tearful over Paul Dunn talks...only to discover that he fabricated or embellished much of what he said.

Cree-l Kofford makes some comment about it being against God's will to have a secondary ceremony and no one calls him on it...like you need permission to do anything.

You said, "This is not entirely accurate. There are many among the membership who would even agree with you on this issue, regarding the harm being perpetrated upon non-member families who are not allowed to witness and participate in their LDS children's Temple weddings."

So what if you agree with something and not being willing to do anything about it? or to speak up?

You said, "And you are going to try to change how weddings are done here in the U.S."

Why not? We'll have a civil ceremony and then if you want to have your sealing in the Temple and exclude the world, have had it.

You said, "Are you really going to advocate government intervention into Church procedure? Dangerous stuff. You're talking about advocation of government control in every religious faith."

I haven't gotten anything done yet. This is new territory. As for our Founding Fathers, I don't know how you know what they would think about this...seems to me they would look at what the LDS Church does, as did the Federal Government in the 1880's and decide (as reasonable people would if they knew) that the LDS Church is capable of doing some pretty cruel stuff. Don't lose any sleep yet...I'm just getting started.

But know this. Right now the FLDS Church is in the news...is highly visible. This is a perfect time to expose this part of the LDS Church. The media is going to have a field day.

You might you agree with me but i suspect if someone from the Church decided you were stepping across the line having any criticism and threatened you at all, you'd retreat.

Let's be clear here.

I don't want the Church's money though I find that kind of excessive wealth disturbing especially pretending to be a church.That people need to sacrifice the welfare of their families under the threat of losing eternal salvation (fire insurance)is loathsome and disgusting.

I don't want vengeance. I want some reasonableness. If your daughter was getting married and I said, "Just because i believe X you can't be included but I'll come up with something to make you feel better" you'd be outraged and hurt.

As for what Jesus said, The Saviour went around serving people...he sent his apostles without purse or script, not leather bound, gold leafed quadruple combinations and diamond studded CTR rings.

He cast the money changers out of the temple.

I'm not really interested in getting beat up by offering my other cheek..or giving all I have "to the building up of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints"...I don't buy that anymore.

I don't mind being of service...and helping the poor. I always thought that service was to be done anonymously. In fact when i do it, I don't have my name plastered over everything expecting to use my service to gain converts to my religion as the Church does.

And while we obviously disagree with the how to do this, I do wish you well in life. I hope this brings you real joy. I wish it did for me. But when I find a bully in the schoolyard, someone has to put him in his place otherwise he becomes confident and continues to hurt others. it's about time someone said something.

I've gone to some extreme lengths to avoid confrontation. I used to think reasonableness should prevail. I used think if were work together we can work out a solution that works for both of us. But the Church isn't about reasonableness or compassion. it's about control.

And so you know, i'd have the same attitude if this were about your children getting married and you not able to go, i'd fight just as hard for you and your happiness.

I hear Goliath lost.

You said..."The founding fathers decided to allow people the freedom to worship without government intervention and the people of all these faiths keep pushing the line of stupidity farther and farther expecting everyone else to accommodate you just because you believe something".

Yet you are expecting everyone within the LDS faith to accommodate you just because YOU DONT believe something.

You said that you are sick of all of the 'Freedom of Religion garbage'.

So...you basically advocate giving Big Brother even MORE control over our lives?

Insomuch as a religious organization is not breaking the law...I don't believe that the Government has any right trying to legislate what that religious organization should or should not believe.

When you first posted your experience...my sympathies lay with you. And I STILL believe that it would do no harm for the LDS Church to allow for a ring ceremony and exchange of vows for the benefit of non-member family and friends.

They could do this in the temple chapel...or at the reception.

Other than that...with this latest post...you are obviously out of your head...and thereby...I leave you on your own.

Life Rocks wrote:
As for a lawsuit...I'm not sure.

I get so sick of the "freedom of religion" garbage.

This current situation with the FLDS church is so typical. The LDS/FLDS has a 90 year common history and the LDS Church tries to divorce itself of it as if there was no association to the FLDS Church exists at all yet there would be no FLDS Church without the LDS Church.

The founding fathers decided to allow people the freedom to worship without government intervention and the people of all these faiths keep pushing the line of stupidity farther and farther expecting everyone else to accommodate you just because you believe something.

Then Church's hide behind their tax free status to grow to such gigantic proportions. The LDS Church isn't a religion, it's a massive business with free labor with vast real estate holdings.... broadcasting company... insurance company... travel company...a chain of bookstores... publishing company... banks...department stores...universities with rental properties to get even more money.
ll that and no accountability.
Call it for what it is.

Why it concerns me is that even in the bible we are told that salvation should be available "without price". The Church is more concerned about money and expanding the empire than about it's people.

All I wanted to do as my children's father (not like I'm crashing a strangers wedding) is to get to see them get married and you and your lousy rotten Church say no.

I admit, I made a huge mistake getting so involved in the Church. It's been a very painful and regretable situation.

The affect? All I had hoped for was to accommodate in some way those you and your Church hurt.

You said, "You appear to believe that everyone within the Church membership goes blithely along with everything the Church decides."

To that I reply, look at the result and ask yourself what part you have in this? If you say nothing, always following the teachings of your leaders then I guess that includes you.

If the Church is true it needn't hide behind telling the members not to criticize. Seems here, anyone of the leaders says anything and there's seldom a time when anyone calls them on anything.

I remember as a young missionary I was tearful over Paul Dunn talks...only to discover that he fabricated or embellished much of what he said.

Cree-l Kofford makes some comment about it being against God's will to have a secondary ceremony and no one calls him on it...like you need permission to do anything.

You said, "This is not entirely accurate. There are many among the membership who would even agree with you on this issue, regarding the harm being perpetrated upon non-member families who are not allowed to witness and participate in their LDS children's Temple weddings."

So what if you agree with something and not being willing to do anything about it? or to speak up?

You said, "And you are going to try to change how weddings are done here in the U.S."

Why not? We'll have a civil ceremony and then if you want to have your sealing in the Temple and exclude the world, have had it.

You said, "Are you really going to advocate government intervention into Church procedure? Dangerous stuff. You're talking about advocation of government control in every religious faith."

I haven't gotten anything done yet. This is new territory. As for our Founding Fathers, I don't know how you know what they would think about this...seems to me they would look at what the LDS Church does, as did the Federal Government in the 1880's and decide (as reasonable people would if they knew) that the LDS Church is capable of doing some pretty cruel stuff. Don't lose any sleep yet...I'm just getting started.

But know this. Right now the FLDS Church is in the news...is highly visible. This is a perfect time to expose this part of the LDS Church. The media is going to have a field day.

You might you agree with me but i suspect if someone from the Church decided you were stepping across the line having any criticism and threatened you at all, you'd retreat.

Let's be clear here.

I don't want the Church's money though I find that kind of excessive wealth disturbing especially pretending to be a church.That people need to sacrifice the welfare of their families under the threat of losing eternal salvation (fire insurance)is loathsome and disgusting.

I don't want vengeance. I want some reasonableness. If your daughter was getting married and I said, "Just because i believe X you can't be included but I'll come up with something to make you feel better" you'd be outraged and hurt.

As for what Jesus said, The Saviour went around serving people...he sent his apostles without purse or script, not leather bound, gold leafed quadruple combinations and diamond studded CTR rings.

He cast the money changers out of the temple.

I'm not really interested in getting beat up by offering my other cheek..or giving all I have "to the building up of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints"...I don't buy that anymore.

I don't mind being of service...and helping the poor. I always thought that service was to be done anonymously. In fact when i do it, I don't have my name plastered over everything expecting to use my service to gain converts to my religion as the Church does.

And while we obviously disagree with the how to do this, I do wish you well in life. I hope this brings you real joy. I wish it did for me. But when I find a bully in the schoolyard, someone has to put him in his place otherwise he becomes confident and continues to hurt others. it's about time someone said something.

I've gone to some extreme lengths to avoid confrontation. I used to think reasonableness should prevail. I used think if were work together we can work out a solution that works for both of us. But the Church isn't about reasonableness or compassion. it's about control.

And so you know, i'd have the same attitude if this were about your children getting married and you not able to go, i'd fight just as hard for you and your happiness.

I hear Goliath lost.

And so did David...eventually.

itchy peaches wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Creepy-crawly, creepy-crawly.

I've deliberately avoided any personal attacks. Apparently that doesn't apply to you.

You bet I'm angry. And I don't think my anger is misplaced. And as much as I hate to admit it, I have to first hold myself responsible and accountable for believing this nonsense.

And now I'm terribly frustrated with this situation because it's not like I can just take my family leave it behind and go see a different movie. It follows me everywhere. Being married to someone who is so committed to it means that it'll just mean more of the same. It's taken my children from me because they've been conditioned to believe it. What a lousy mess!

I'm not sure how to solve this either. It's so disgusting to me that I supported this organization so naively and blindly for so long.

The FLDS Church has control over it's members and it's more obvious. The LDS Church is just as controlling. I would have never believed it before but now I can see.

It doesn't do me any good to be here any further.

It's just one big lie.



Did you just goof and post under the wrong moniker?

Jaye wrote:
itchy peaches wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Creepy-crawly, creepy-crawly.

I've deliberately avoided any personal attacks. Apparently that doesn't apply to you.

You bet I'm angry. And I don't think my anger is misplaced. And as much as I hate to admit it, I have to first hold myself responsible and accountable for believing this nonsense.

And now I'm terribly frustrated with this situation because it's not like I can just take my family leave it behind and go see a different movie. It follows me everywhere. Being married to someone who is so committed to it means that it'll just mean more of the same. It's taken my children from me because they've been conditioned to believe it. What a lousy mess!

I'm not sure how to solve this either. It's so disgusting to me that I supported this organization so naively and blindly for so long.

The FLDS Church has control over it's members and it's more obvious. The LDS Church is just as controlling. I would have never believed it before but now I can see.

It doesn't do me any good to be here any further.

It's just one big lie.



Did you just goof and post under the wrong moniker?

I'm wondering the same thing...as LifeRocks and Itchy Peaches didn't seem to be posting the same type of comments I'm a little confused...

JLD wrote:
Jaye wrote:
itchy peaches wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Creepy-crawly, creepy-crawly.

I've deliberately avoided any personal attacks. Apparently that doesn't apply to you.

You bet I'm angry. And I don't think my anger is misplaced. And as much as I hate to admit it, I have to first hold myself responsible and accountable for believing this nonsense.

And now I'm terribly frustrated with this situation because it's not like I can just take my family leave it behind and go see a different movie. It follows me everywhere. Being married to someone who is so committed to it means that it'll just mean more of the same. It's taken my children from me because they've been conditioned to believe it. What a lousy mess!

I'm not sure how to solve this either. It's so disgusting to me that I supported this organization so naively and blindly for so long.

The FLDS Church has control over it's members and it's more obvious. The LDS Church is just as controlling. I would have never believed it before but now I can see.

It doesn't do me any good to be here any further.

It's just one big lie.



Did you just goof and post under the wrong moniker?

I'm wondering the same thing...as LifeRocks and Itchy Peaches didn't seem to be posting the same type of comments I'm a little confused...

Unless Itchy Peaches has a dual personality. . .However, I've PMd Itchy before, and that post does not sound like her. LifeRocks, again I say "creepy".

I am sure LR was just as surprised as you are to have his post come out under my name. My profile was accidentally left open on the home computer. This is his wife.