This thread discusses the Content article: Pit bull -- Ticking time bomb or trusted friend?

I want a few facts straightened out. The Pit Bull is not native of america, its breed originates in europe, it is also of of the oldest breeds. I must argue facts with Tug from North Valley. The Pit bull was not designed as a dog on dog fighter. In England in the 1800's the PIT BULL part of the name comes from a small ring called a pit, bull comes from the animals they were used at that time period, to engage in fighting. 2 male pit bulls were put in a "PIT" with a young BULL and the 2 dogs would attack the bull, hence the phrase bull-baiting, this was englands poor mans blood sport, similar to cock fighting. It was banned by parliment in the late 1800's for being cruel for both bull and dog. The only TWO breeds in my research since 1985, when given my first PIT BULL and facing Orem City on the matter, are the Presa Canario and the Boston terrier. We as Human Beings have taken some of the best things given to us and corrupted them. And I believe these people should face the music not the breed of dog. The largest drug bust by a canine belongs to a female pit bull, In the last 3 years 2 of the years Pits have won the top dog k9 awards, and the most decorated dog in america is a pit bull, Named Dredge. Before the Dogs were used as bull baiting dogs they were used as big game hunting(sight hunting) dogs. A famous pit bull is the pit from the Lil Rascals. Teddy Roosevelt had a pair in our White House at his time of Presidency, Helen Keller had one as a guide dog. Its a good thing the was no media hype then. The pioneers brought them west for of all things guard dogs, the only thing guard about the breed is the look. But the pioneers refered to them as NANNY dogs. For the serious information seeker type in American Pit Bull Terrier on google and read.

I just dont get how anyone can see a couple 5 weeks old puppies playing assume they are going to grow up to be animal agressive?

APBT are very vivacious and exuberant dogs. Their play style is pretty rough and at 5 weeks old puppies have teeth like little pins. The main difference between APBT puppies and other breeds is that so many beeds have coats that readily hide any scratches. A little blood on the scruff of their neck shouldnt be surprising to anyone who has been around a litter of high drive working dogs of any breed.

Additionally I am a bit tired of hearing how APBT's are so dog agressive. I wont lie and say that they cant be or even that they are not a bit more inclined than many breeds but it gets a bit old when everone thinks every APBT is going to immediatly attack any animal it sees. Not long ago I attended a function where there were 7 adult APBT is the same house all playing, some had never met prior to that time.

Any dog owner should be well aware of dog body language and handle introductions to other dogs in a controlled, well thought out fashion.

Anyone who thinks dog aggression is only for APBT's must live under a rock. Below are some quotes pulled off their respective web pages....

When it comes to other dogs, however—especially dogs of the same sex—boxers are not so likely to get along without incident. Dog aggression seems most common among females, although un-neutered males can also fight.
http://www.savetheboxers.com/ready.php

Jack Russell Terriers are often aggressive with other dogs. Same-sex aggression and aggression towards other breeds of dogs is well documented with this terrier. It is strongly recommended that no more than two Jack Russells (of opposite sex only) ever be permitted to stay together unattended.
http://www.terrier.com/breed/whatis.php4

They require a great deal of socialization as puppies, and obedience training is very important as Akitas are dominant dogs and tend to be aggressive towards other dogs, especially of the same sex.
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeds/akitas.html#puppies

Heelers are often aggressive with other dogs, for pretty much the same reasons. They tend to be picky about their friends and pack and not really like anyone who isn't part of their normal circle.
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeds/acd.html

Some German Shepherds are dominant or aggressive toward other dogs of the same sex. Some have strong instincts to chase and seize cats and other fleeing creatures. If anything goes wrong in the breeding, socializing, training, handling, or management of this breed, it is capable of seriously injuring or killing other animals.
http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/germanshepherds.html

An Airedale not properly socialized and treated as a member of the family can become neurotic, destructive, dog aggressive or even people aggressive.
http://www.airedaleterriers.org/swat/aboutairedales.shtml

These are just a couple comments about other breeds, I am sure there are a lot more. The common vein here is to well socialize any dog. And remember, animal agression is NOT the same thing as human aggression.

Next week I will discuss why owning a pit bull is akin to owning a gun.

That should be a good one. One of my "hoglegs" sat on my desk all weekend, never made a sound, never moved, and I never had to feed it!

My statement was “The American Pitbull Terrier is a breed of dog that was traditionally bred to fight”. Historical documentation supports that claim. Dog fighting was popular in England at the very beginning of the eighteenth century but was largely eclipsed by bull-baiting. In 1835 the English Parliament banned animal fighting. This caused the disappearance of bear and bull baiting as those activities were hard to hide from the law. However dog fighting flourished due in part to the fact that it was easier to conceal. Since that time the “bull and terrier” (the predecessor of what is known today as the American Pitbull Terrier) has been used and bred specifically for dog fighting. The word traditionally means “handed down and in accordance with tradition” and I believe it has been correctly applied in this case.

I agree with you Taunka that pitbull terriers have been some of the most decorated and celebrated dog breeds in America, and rightfully so. I further agree that it is the owners who should be held responsible for their dog’s actions and not a particular breed. My position is in no way an anti-pitbull one, quite the contrary. I believe pitbulls can be a valuable part of the canine community. I am however an advocate for responsible pet ownership regardless of the breed.

One of your statements that I simply did not understand and thought maybe you could clarify is: “The only TWO breeds in my research since 1985, when given my first PIT BULL and facing Orem City on the matter, are the Presa Canario and the Boston terrier.” What exactly were you trying to communicate and what research were you referring to?

Thanks for your comments.

Exitium – thank you for your comments. I wanted to take a moment to discuss your post and clarify statements made in my article. You stated - I just don’t get how anyone can see a couple of 5 week old puppies playing (and) assume they are going to grow up to be animal aggressive. What I wrote in the article was that I witnessed two young puppies fighting, not playing. These puppies were bred by a dog fighter specifically to be used for that purpose. The incident occurred under a stairway such that the puppies could not immediately be retrieved. These tiny little puppies were in no way playing and had I not been able to eventually reach them I believe one of them would have killed the other. Even so I never stated nor implied that these puppies were going to grow up to be animal aggressive. I simply stated that the fighting instinct (as evidenced in the behavior of these puppies who were so young that it is highly unlikely they could have received any operant conditioning that would have influenced their animal aggressiveness) in these dogs is strong and cannot be overlooked; a statement that I willingly stand behind.

Your statement …a little blood on the scruff of their neck shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who has been around a litter of high drive working dogs of any breed… makes several assumptions, all of which are incorrect. The first assumption being that there was only - a little blood - on the puppies. There was in fact a lot of blood, much more than you would ever expect in a playful wrestling match between 5 week old puppies. The second assumption was that the blood was - on the scruff of their neck - and while they did indeed have blood on their necks it was also from wounds on their ears, front legs, and face – typical of a dog fight. I have been witness to several dog fights and these puppies were in no way playing, they were engaged in combat. The final assumption was that I have never been around high drive working dogs. I have personally owned over 50 American Pitbull Terriers, have had several American Bulldogs, one Presa Canario, and several Dogue de Bordeaux just to name a few. I have worked on a ranch with and around high drive cattle dogs, have worked with law enforcement canine units, and have been in the animal control and sheltering business as a professional for several years and I am surrounded by over 100 different dogs on a daily basis, I would guess that would qualify as having been around high drive working dogs.

And finally, your statement that says “…I am a bit tired of hearing how APBT’s are so dog aggressive” intimates that I promoted the idea that pitbulls are, and can only be, dog aggressive when in fact my article stated clearly that fighting dog breeds can and often do get along well with other dogs when properly trained and socialized.

Just some quick clarifications. Thank you for your comments.

Tug, Yes, I made some assumptions based on (lack of) information contained in the article. The blow quote isall that was furnished...

However, I have also witnessed very young pit bull puppy litter mates fight each other with such aggression that they were hard to separate (at 5 weeks old) and they drew blood. The fighting instinct in these dogs is strong and cannot be overlooked.

However now you say they were under stairs and hard to get to. They were bred from a current fighting line etc etc etc.

These are details that clearly set this litter apart from (dare I say) most yet these details were totally omitted.

I also dont look at puppy violence quite the same as violence from an adult dog. With maturity and education comes ones ability to not only understand what behavior is acceptable but also tolerance and self control. These are all things that pups and children lack.

Your obviously a proponent of the breed but witholding information isnt much different that false reporting. It all leads to assumptions and its one of the main contributing factors to the breeds bad reputation.

My last statement above was not actually targetted at the article just a passing note, so no need to defend yourself.

I guess in the end I am not real sure what your goal is with this series of articles? On one hand I feel that there is a large group of people who own APBT for the wrong reasons and/or for what ever reason are not well suited for owning this breed of dog. At the same time however the more we go on about how they are like owning a gun the the more the stereotype gets fed. Its really kind of a catch 22.