JLD wrote:
Life Rocks, you've gotten some good, honest feedback, but instead of commenting on that you seem to want to concentrate on your anger and hurt. Go for it, that is your choice. It is very unlikely that you will get what you want that way; the LDS church isn't going to listen to one more person ranting and raving about their practices more than say, they would if you wrote them a reasonable letter asking for consideration, or at a minimum clarification of the practice.

I would say again, I don't think what you are doing is right or justified. Your child made a choice to marry in this fashion - support them! Instead you seem to want to bad mouth the practice they chose to everyone who will listen.

I don't care what you think you were entitled to as a parent (and I'm a parent myself) but you have no right to rant and rave that the way your child married excluded you. This is not about you, this is about them. This is their church, their ceremony and their choice. You can cry foul at the top of your lungs and maybe, just maybe, you will get what you want, but I seriously doubt it. Instead you will only accomplish making people upset and hurting feelings.

I'm not even LDS but I agree that the LDS has every right to exclude the "unworthy" from this ceremony and to choose just who is and who is not "worhty" by their standards. I support their right to do this and I don't want to see them, or any other church, change to accommodate parents who can't see what this might mean to anyone but them.

I'll step off of my soap box now. Life Rocks, I wish you all the best and I hope you find peace with this issue someday.

I agree with your post except to point out that the "unworthy" are not invited, it's more that we have qualifications to enter, anybody can go through the process to be qualified, it's not a matter of being unworthy in my mind.

Life Rocks wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:

As for being angry about this. You bet I'm angry. Anger in this instance is more than justified. I think God is angry too. The thought occurs to me that "God the Father", knowing how hard it is to be a parent, has a special place for devoted dads. A normal father who loves his kids should be angry at such a practice.

So you're really really really angry that the Church didn't allow you to go inside the temple at your daughters Sealing because you think the Church is a bunch of hooey. I got that.

So if one of your other 8 children, that you raised LDS, decides to join the Church of Satan and invites you to attend their wedding where you actually get to go inside. And they sacrifice an animal and drink its blood. You would be very very happy. Because witnessing that is very very important to you. I get it.

You're a great dad.

You'd think he'd be happy they are actually doing something he couldn't, live up to their covenants and beliefs, without wavering to the whims of the world. His poor kids, there Dad hates the thing he taught them was truth.


We see certainly see things differently. If I were to talk about a Catholic Priest misusing young children, we could agree on that. It's wrong.
If we talk about the abuses in the FLDS faith, we probably will agree on that. That's wrong too!

But if we talk about something the LDS Church does that offends tens of thousands of people in something so basic as marriage being a family event...I guess that's to hard to address since it would mean looking at yourself. I shake my head in disgust. Shame on all of you.

I see this as thinking for myself for a change and taking a stand for what's right, something people who are obsessed with "following the rules" can't do.

It seems you're more concerned with "membership" and "being a good Mormon" rather than recognizing that what the Church is doing is wrong. And even if you could see it, because you've been so conditioned to "follow the brethren" you can't stand up for yourself. And by so doing, that makes you an accomplice.

That your comparing this to child abuse shows the level of delusion you have.

I have friends and aquaintances who have been in your situation who have understood the meaning and seriousness of the LDS faiths beliefs on the subject of marriage for Eternity in a temple, and respected and honored those family members who make that choice, that's what it's about, honoring and respecting a family members choice.

They understand there is religious ceremonies in all faiths they can't attend, and honor those also, it seems as an ex LDS person you would understand your childrens choices better than you seemingly are acting "shocked" all of a sudden.

Dubbs wrote:
I agree with your post except to point out that the "unworthy" are not invited, it's more that we have qualifications to enter, anybody can go through the process to be qualified, it's not a matter of being unworthy in my mind.

Really? Then why did you say this earlier?

Dubbs wrote:
So.... your a member of the church, why not get yourself worthy to get to the temple would be a logical question.

JLD wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:

As for being angry about this. You bet I'm angry. Anger in this instance is more than justified. I think God is angry too. The thought occurs to me that "God the Father", knowing how hard it is to be a parent, has a special place for devoted dads. A normal father who loves his kids should be angry at such a practice.

So you're really really really angry that the Church didn't allow you to go inside the temple at your daughters Sealing because you think the Church is a bunch of hooey. I got that.

So if one of your other 8 children, that you raised LDS, decides to join the Church of Satan and invites you to attend their wedding where you actually get to go inside. And they sacrifice an animal and drink its blood. You would be very very happy. Because witnessing that is very very important to you. I get it.

You're a great dad.

You'd think he'd be happy they are actually doing something he couldn't, live up to their covenants and beliefs, without wavering to the whims of the world. His poor kids, there Dad hates the thing he taught them was truth.


We see certainly see things differently. If I were to talk about a Catholic Priest misusing young children, we could agree on that. It's wrong.
If we talk about the abuses in the FLDS faith, we probably will agree on that. That's wrong too!

But if we talk about something the LDS Church does that offends tens of thousands of people in something so basic as marriage being a family event...I guess that's to hard to address since it would mean looking at yourself. I shake my head in disgust. Shame on all of you.

I see this as thinking for myself for a change and taking a stand for what's right, something people who are obsessed with "following the rules" can't do.

It seems you're more concerned with "membership" and "being a good Mormon" rather than recognizing that what the Church is doing is wrong. And even if you could see it, because you've been so conditioned to "follow the brethren" you can't stand up for yourself. And by so doing, that makes you an accomplice.

Shame on us? For what, being reasonable? Honestly, not everyone is slamming on you, there are just as many posts offering advice, and not everyone cares about LDS membership standing...just because someone disagrees with your opinion on the issue doesn't make them LDS.

If you want to talk about church leaders misusing young children or other such abuses, I'm all for nodding my head in agreement. But I won't say that being excluded from a religious ceremony is even remotely the same thing.

I agree concerning religions. It's their right to believe and practice what they want...to a limit. Given all the religious organizations around the world, it's really quite amazing at what things they can get people to do in the name of "honoring God".

My regret now is that I can see what's occurring and that I didn't think for myself all these years. I followed the Church naively, blindly believing that this was true. Now I can see the extent of control the Church (not just the LDS Church)has on it's members and my children.

I was trying to teach my children to think for themselves and to notice that wrong can occur even in the Church at all levels. And just because someone "in authority" says something is true doesn't make it right.

We've become so numbed to spiritual things.
We've come to think religion = spirituality. It's not so.

I used to watch people pray for "those who weren't at Church" and make no effort at all to visit them.

Or to pray for peace and safety...all the time. If this life is to prepare to meet God shouldn't we be praying for all the experiences that we need to have?

Or sitting week and after week (in exactly the same place) listening to lessons over and over and thinking that was spirituality?

To suggest that a physical building (ie a temple) has "the spirit" and has more importance than the people seems like what the Catholics do with their cathedrals. Seems to me that the Temples have become our new sacred cows, the new golden idols of worship.

Because you're in it, you're like a fish in water that can't see the water it's in. The Church tells you that any perspective outside the "safety" of the faith is of the devil and wrong. I'd wonder if one year the Priesthood manual didn't come with preprinted answers what the discussion would be.

Someone comes with an opinion different than yours and the other members gang up on him immediately telling him his opinion is wrong.

Couldn't be that something this guy has to say is valid. We're right you say. It's our right to have a belief that offends others. Apparently it is.

Please, if you would, tell me specifically what's so reasonable and caring and loving about excluding family members from the experience of attending the wedding of their children?

It's true. I'm angry for the moment. I'm feeling hurt. I didn't have a close family as a child. This isn't how I expected this occasion would turn out. I thought that close families did things together. If I had been an evil, or nasty and mistreated them, I'd agree...leave the bum out.

I'll get over this with time.

But I've been and am a good dad. The night before the wedding, my daughter and I stopped at a grocery store to get her some vitamins to stave of a cold she felt was coming on. We came out of the store and I noticed her headlight on her car was out. So there in the cold and snow, and in the dark I fiddled around to replace the bulb. That was my moment with my daughter.

Then showing up at the Temple the next day.

All the while you're believing I'm wrong, what you might want to think about too is what happened to your compassion as a human being when you follow a practice that disappoints and hurts so many and you feel good about it?

Life Rocks wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:

As for being angry about this. You bet I'm angry. Anger in this instance is more than justified. I think God is angry too. The thought occurs to me that "God the Father", knowing how hard it is to be a parent, has a special place for devoted dads. A normal father who loves his kids should be angry at such a practice.

So you're really really really angry that the Church didn't allow you to go inside the temple at your daughters Sealing because you think the Church is a bunch of hooey. I got that.

So if one of your other 8 children, that you raised LDS, decides to join the Church of Satan and invites you to attend their wedding where you actually get to go inside. And they sacrifice an animal and drink its blood. You would be very very happy. Because witnessing that is very very important to you. I get it.

You're a great dad.

With all due respect to you, you don't want to go there at all.

Interesting you made the connection.
Some people think the LDS Church is of Satan. While the LDS Church has changed it's practice, in terms of the Temple ceremony used to contain some pretty gruesome threats of self-sacrifice. I'm sure you can't acknowledge the similarity.

It's replies like this that remind me just how glad I am to be out of the Church.

And yes, I was/am a terrific father!

It was bait and you swallowed it. Why don't you tell your children what you think of their beliefs, daddy? I'm sure they will think that's terrific.

I'm not saying this is on the same level of child abuse. My point was simply that it's easier to notice the faults or flaws of other religious groups other than our own.

That's one of my concerns about organized religion. It separates us as human beings. Mormons come across as thinking of themselves as superior and chosen and arrogant. How else can you think of yourself when you're reminded so often that you have the truth.

It would be different if I didn't have 30 years of experience in the Church. I know how you think. I know what you feel. I know what your doctrine is. And that's why I said before, I can't argue this from a religious perspective. You believe what you believe.

But as a human being...as a father...I'm telling you what's occurring.

You and the Church will do whatever they want with that information. Next time you go to a Temple wedding...just notice what's going around you. Notice that it's your first inclination to tell this guy, he's wrong and delusional. Couldn't be that he has a valid concern that needs addressing.

If the idea of a Temple recommend was instituted after polygamy was adopted and the Church no longer practices it what would it hurt to allow all family members to attend the weddings of it's children?