KitKat wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Betz wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:

There is a problem with this forum. . .We can't see each other's facial expressions, or if we're laughing, crying, etc. as we read and post our comments. I was chuckling a little when I read your post about discussions with an "old" man, Jaye. As for declaring my age in my comment, I just wanted to let you know I'm no spring chicken chronologically. No offense was intended on your part, therefore, none taken. Anyone for web cams?

Hmmmmm . . . webcams. That could get us into trouble when the topic of chocolate sauce and plastic sheeting comes up - as it does on a regular basis!

Especially when it comes to Sir John racing for a cold shower every 5 minutes.
Now that you mention that, we must get webcams!


Ooooooo...KitKat's feeling frisky.

Life Rocks wrote:
Religious organizations and governments, large groups that have "rules" cast in concrete often can't see that their behavior is in the "stuck" position. The question to always ask, "is what I'm doing relevent for todays situation?"

"Is anyone hurt by some thing I'm doing?"

Historically, someone makes up a rule and the following generation grows up with it and determines it to be "the law" and unchangeable. In a closed society where the leaders are seemingly trying to protect the members from the world, from thinking and choosing for themselves, from even criticizing the choices of the leaders, I find that almost crazy.

I don't know what the percentage is. Seems those who are active and believers want to leave things as they are. Those who are offended by this seem like they're more supportive of my position.

I say that you're just as bright and smart and as inspired and not as stuck as those old folks who claim to be your leaders.

In life you see it everywhere.

The configuration of keyboard we're using is known as the "qwerty" keyboard. The reason it has this configuration is because over a hundred years ago mechanical typewriters were inadequate for the speed at which people could type, the keys were constantly jamming, so they rearranged the keys to slow people down.

Though this problem has long gone away, 99% of the keyboards are still in this qwerty configuration (if you didn't notice the letters q through y spell "qwerty"Not effective but a tradition.

They say "old generals are often fighting last years war". You see Gordon B Hinckley building all these temples and thinking he's so inspired. I see him building more of the same and deepening the footings of an old way of thinking.

To me, government, Church's and other organizations promote "more of the same".
I wonder if they were to retire all the oldsters and call some Apostles in their 30's, throw out the "Church handbook of instructions" and pray for "inspiration" that was about creating solutions...I would wonder what the Church would look like then?

I understand that nothing works for everyone, all the time. That which worked today, may not work tomorrow. There are a lot of situations where a solution has unintended consequences that no one could foresee.

When Cree-L Kofford said what he says, he's older and makes some absolute opinion. So what? But because he's your leader, you take it as gospel and "the truth". The Church years ago ended up buying a forged document by Mark Hoffman which they thought might be hurtful to the Church. It was forged so to me that shows the folks, as nice and sweet as they are, are just people.

My third companion (I didn't see a black person til I was in highschool-which is why i like Lanier's story so much) was taking me through a grocery store saying "Nigger want a watermelon?" Even my mission president was racist. People are human and they make mistakes.

Rather than the Republicans and Democrats and whoever else wants a voice, the current system of government is not about solving the country's problems. Everyone knows it. This wonderful country is losing it's respected place in the world because people want to hang on to what doesn't work.

As it pertains to the Church...you're more than welcome to believe whatever you want. To me it seems more like a group think rather than addressing the situation. Your faith is saying, "We're right, screw the rest of you. We don't care who we offend."

It can't be me telling you...it's you who has to see if for yourself.

Seriously, Girl, do you really think a loving God, who I was taught loves all his children, would allow for a tradition or procedure, that would deliberately hurt and offend thousands of people?

I've really struggled a lot with this whole question as you can tell. My children were my life. It was so disheartening and frustrating to be in this situation.

Those here expect me to honor their commitment to their beliefs as they understand them. I was that age before. I know what it's like to be young and impressionable and to blindly follow the commandments without thought of anyone else's feelings.

Since I left the Church, I've come to learn that the only time the Church receives a revelation is when they're confronted either by the media or the government. I'm prepared to do both. I feel strongly that this is something that is very hurtful to a lot of people. Other countries don't recognize church weddings first. If that's what I need to press, then I guess that's what needs to happen.


You've offically moved on from your questioning the church on the temple thing to just plain bashing the church, time to move on dude, we see it over and over here from those who leave the church, they become bitter at the church they left. Bashing it, not realizing that your family is still a member of the church and loves the church, don't turn into the "bitter bob" syndrome as I've named it here bro, move on, respect your family and their decisions in life. Look at yours and ask yourself if it truly has made you a happier person. Outwardly it appears not to have, but made you an angry, sort of obnoxious personality that has to go around bashing others faith to see if that will help, it doesn't.

Dubbs wrote:
Life Rocks wrote:
Religious organizations and governments, large groups that have "rules" cast in concrete often can't see that their behavior is in the "stuck" position. The question to always ask, "is what I'm doing relevent for todays situation?"

"Is anyone hurt by some thing I'm doing?"

Historically, someone makes up a rule and the following generation grows up with it and determines it to be "the law" and unchangeable. In a closed society where the leaders are seemingly trying to protect the members from the world, from thinking and choosing for themselves, from even criticizing the choices of the leaders, I find that almost crazy.

I don't know what the percentage is. Seems those who are active and believers want to leave things as they are. Those who are offended by this seem like they're more supportive of my position.

I say that you're just as bright and smart and as inspired and not as stuck as those old folks who claim to be your leaders.

In life you see it everywhere.

The configuration of keyboard we're using is known as the "qwerty" keyboard. The reason it has this configuration is because over a hundred years ago mechanical typewriters were inadequate for the speed at which people could type, the keys were constantly jamming, so they rearranged the keys to slow people down.

Though this problem has long gone away, 99% of the keyboards are still in this qwerty configuration (if you didn't notice the letters q through y spell "qwerty"Not effective but a tradition.

They say "old generals are often fighting last years war". You see Gordon B Hinckley building all these temples and thinking he's so inspired. I see him building more of the same and deepening the footings of an old way of thinking.

To me, government, Church's and other organizations promote "more of the same".
I wonder if they were to retire all the oldsters and call some Apostles in their 30's, throw out the "Church handbook of instructions" and pray for "inspiration" that was about creating solutions...I would wonder what the Church would look like then?

I understand that nothing works for everyone, all the time. That which worked today, may not work tomorrow. There are a lot of situations where a solution has unintended consequences that no one could foresee.

When Cree-L Kofford said what he says, he's older and makes some absolute opinion. So what? But because he's your leader, you take it as gospel and "the truth". The Church years ago ended up buying a forged document by Mark Hoffman which they thought might be hurtful to the Church. It was forged so to me that shows the folks, as nice and sweet as they are, are just people.

My third companion (I didn't see a black person til I was in highschool-which is why i like Lanier's story so much) was taking me through a grocery store saying "Nigger want a watermelon?" Even my mission president was racist. People are human and they make mistakes.

Rather than the Republicans and Democrats and whoever else wants a voice, the current system of government is not about solving the country's problems. Everyone knows it. This wonderful country is losing it's respected place in the world because people want to hang on to what doesn't work.

As it pertains to the Church...you're more than welcome to believe whatever you want. To me it seems more like a group think rather than addressing the situation. Your faith is saying, "We're right, screw the rest of you. We don't care who we offend."

It can't be me telling you...it's you who has to see if for yourself.

Seriously, Girl, do you really think a loving God, who I was taught loves all his children, would allow for a tradition or procedure, that would deliberately hurt and offend thousands of people?

I've really struggled a lot with this whole question as you can tell. My children were my life. It was so disheartening and frustrating to be in this situation.

Those here expect me to honor their commitment to their beliefs as they understand them. I was that age before. I know what it's like to be young and impressionable and to blindly follow the commandments without thought of anyone else's feelings.

Since I left the Church, I've come to learn that the only time the Church receives a revelation is when they're confronted either by the media or the government. I'm prepared to do both. I feel strongly that this is something that is very hurtful to a lot of people. Other countries don't recognize church weddings first. If that's what I need to press, then I guess that's what needs to happen.


You've offically moved on from your questioning the church on the temple thing to just plain bashing the church, time to move on dude, we see it over and over here from those who leave the church, they become bitter at the church they left. Bashing it, not realizing that your family is still a member of the church and loves the church, don't turn into the "bitter bob" syndrome as I've named it here bro, move on, respect your family and their decisions in life. Look at yours and ask yourself if it truly has made you a happier person. Outwardly it appears not to have, but made you an angry, sort of obnoxious personality that has to go around bashing others faith to see if that will help, it doesn't.

Hey, Bitter Bob, you appear frustrated, anxious, often obnoxious -- obviously the LDS church has made you a bitter man. Trys something different.

Once again...the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.

BTW Kent...Wren coined the 'Bitter-Bob' bit. Not you.

Jaye wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Betz wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:

There is a problem with this forum. . .We can't see each other's facial expressions, or if we're laughing, crying, etc. as we read and post our comments. I was chuckling a little when I read your post about discussions with an "old" man, Jaye. As for declaring my age in my comment, I just wanted to let you know I'm no spring chicken chronologically. No offense was intended on your part, therefore, none taken. Anyone for web cams?

Hmmmmm . . . webcams. That could get us into trouble when the topic of chocolate sauce and plastic sheeting comes up - as it does on a regular basis!

Especially when it comes to Sir John racing for a cold shower every 5 minutes.
Now that you mention that, we must get webcams!


Ooooooo...KitKat's feeling frisky.

LOL..

Jaye wrote:
Once again...the irony is thick enough to cut with a knife.

BTW Kent...Wren coined the 'Bitter-Bob' bit. Not you.

Jaye, Bitter Bob did use it infrequently in the lower-case to apply to obnoxious, frustrated individuals with their religions, so I have appropriately coined him with it in the upper case.

I believe we should all use it as an approriate address to him.