Uncle_Bud wrote:
[
I'm just watching and waiting for BLogan to get here and give Dubbs his daily Butt Kickin!

What's wrong, you can't do it yourself? You admit your not that bright idjit boy?

Wren wrote:
And he admitted earlier that the sermons from the Journal of Discourses are accurate renditions of what the church leaders were preaching to the saints.

And it's only Thursday. What else is he going to break?

Never said that idjit boy.

Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.

Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.

Here we go...

The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate

Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.

1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;

We see that here daily.

Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.

Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.

Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed

He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment

The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate


Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225

He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.


He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.


He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.


Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.

Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney

Many prophecys of healing and healings done.


Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes


Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission


Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.


He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family

He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.


Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.


Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era


Prophecized his enemies would not prosper


Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters

I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away

DUBBS WROTE:
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

HERE READ THIS:
Mormon have always placed a lot of emphasis on Joseph Smith's supposed Civil War prophecy ...the only thing they fail to take into account are the historical record and the facts.

In December 25, 1832, (keep this date in mind) Joseph Smith had this famous revelation...D&C 87:1 reads "VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the that will come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;"

Modern Mormons take this to suggest in hindsight that Joseph Smith was referring to the Civil War, which was still many many years away.... BUT the truth is that South Carolina had for many years been a hotbed of rebellion and had made many threats regarding its sovrenty over the federal government. In 1831, there was a slave rebellion, but it was successfully put down. In 1832* (remember this date?) President Jackson signed into law a new tariff that the S.C. legislature felt was unjust, the state threatened to rebel. In response to South Carolina's threat, Jackson sent seven small naval vessels and a man-of-war to Charleston in November 1832. Interestingly enough Joseph Smith had his revelation only 1 month later...was he a prophet...or an avid reader of the newspaper?

So the sad fact is...ANY Mormon or citizen of the United States could have made that broad prediction regarding a rebellion in South Carolina....

Initially the revelation was taken out of the D&C because it never happend as predicted. People began to quest it's authenticity. When the Cvil War did in fact happen the verse was inserted or re-inserted back into the D&C.

Also note D&C 87:3:
"For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend them selves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations."
Emphasis added.

A review of American history will show that the Confederacy did ask Great Britain and France for assistance, and were refused. The Civil War was not "poured out upon all nations", and did not become a World War. So even with his post hoc prophecy he got it wrong by continuing to embellish the story.

If God really wanted to give Joseph Smith some inside info on the Civil War, why didn't he just say "Lo, heed well my words, my servant Joseph: In 1861 there will be a war between the Northern and Southern states, it will last four years, and 500,000 people will die. The North is going to win. Oh, and by the way, I'd stay away from Carthage, Illinois if I were you."

The Civil war started just as Joseph claimed, it is a true prophecy.

Clearly Dubbs does not know his history, and now is sounding like WRZ when in full retreat.

JS was describing the contemporary situation in 1831-1832, the Secession Crisis because of South Carolina's outrage to the Tariff of Abominations. The crisis ended with Congress passing a reduced tariff and Jackson putting every secessionist leader that he would hang them if there were a rebellion.

Thus, Joseph was talking about what was happening right then. He was wrong. It didn't happen when he thought it would. He never mentioned the date of 1861, which in itself is not a defense for JS. I could prophesy that either Jaye or I or JR or WW or BLogan or KitKate or Blondie would kick Dubbs' ass in discussion this week, and James (if he were here) would write, "True Word!"

First of all Wren, you make no sense. Read the Prophecy first, then see if it fits your little up chuck of false information you copy and pasted from somewhere.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord concerning the wars that will shortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the time will come that war will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations.
4 And it shall come to pass, after many days, slaves shall rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.
5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.
6 And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;
7 That the cry of the Saints, and of the blood of the Saints, shall cease to come up into the ears of the Lord of Saboath, from the earth, to be avenged of their enemies.
8 Wherefore, stand ye in holy places, and be not moved, until the day of the Lord come; for behold it cometh quickly, saith the Lord. Amen.


1.The war would begin with the rebellion of South Carolina.
2.It would cause the death and misery of many souls.
3.The Southern States would be divided against the Northern States.
4.The Southern States would call upon other nations for assistance, even upon the nation of Great Britain.
5.Great Britain would call upon other nations for assistance
6.War would eventually be poured out upon all nations.

Does not fit your little upchuck Wren.


Now in December of 1832 there was controversy involving South Carolina and the issue of states' rights. South Carolina had advocated the doctrine of "nullification," arguing that a state could nullify federal laws or taxes that they ruled to be unconstitutional. If there was federal resistance, then South Carolina said they could leave the Union. President Andrew Jackson argued against their position. With much controversy in the air, it would seem logical that Joseph be stirred to ponder the events of the day and inquire of the Lord, resulting in the revelation of Dec. 1832. But there was no reasonable expectation of war at that time, or even in 1851 when the prophecy was more widely publicized. Can anyone offer evidence from writings of American statesmen or scholars in 1832, 1843, or 1851 that make such predictions? Did other wise minds of the day foresee what Joseph saw? Neither a scholar or statesmen, the uneducated 27-year old man, Joseph Smith, saw what would happen by the spirit of revelation.

It is a fact of history that South Carolina took the initiative that led to the rebellion of the Southern States and that the war began in South Carolina. Reacting negatively to the election of Abraham Lincoln, South Carolina's leaders convened on Dec. 20, 1860 and passed an ordinance of secession. Newly elected Governor Pickins then declared "the dissolution of the union between the state of South Carolina and the other states under the name of the United States." Ten other states later joined South Carolina, but she was the first to rebel. The Civil War was the bloodiest this country has ever seen, causing about 400,000 deaths. The South did enlist the aid of Great Britain and also sought help from France (Great Britain, as I recall, also encouraged France to assist the South). Later, after war had been poured out on the nations of the earth, Great Britain found herself threatened by Nazi Germany and called upon other nations of the earth for her defense. After the Civil War, international intrigues and wars grew to increasing severity, with ghastly international scenes of horror during World War I and World War II, with dozens of other wars having been fought and going on at the moment. War has always been on the earth, but the scale of destruction since the Civil War has grown sharply, and war in the past century has become increasingly multinational rather than bilateral. Truly, war has been poured out on all nations.

Joseph said that "after many days" slaves would rise up against their masters. I don't think that referred to the Civil War, but to later events, perhaps events that I have seen in my lifetime. Uprisings of repressed peoples in many Communist nations and other authoritarian states may have been meant in the prophecy. Past and future uprisings of some groups in the United States may also be meant. During the Civil War itself, however, there were relatively few instances of slaves rising up against their masters. The prophecy, however, says "after many days" (meaning, I think, many days after the prophesied war had begun), not "during the Civil War."


It is an accurate depection of the Civil war.

Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
And he admitted earlier that the sermons from the Journal of Discourses are accurate renditions of what the church leaders were preaching to the saints.

And it's only Thursday. What else is he going to break?

Never said that idjit boy.

You sure did. Go back and read your words.