Dubbs (User)
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 1 Month, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: -335
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Jaye wrote:Dubbs Kitkats favorite wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Interesting comment.
if you know our doctrine it is clear. Both the BofM, articles of faith and the Prophets teachings all concur with my thought process on this topic. Deal with it."
Well...using the same line of logic...the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the teachings of the Prophet and founder of the LDS Church, Joseph Smith, AND the Bible all concur with my thought process and beliefs regarding the use of homemade wine for Sacrament.
Oh geez, broken record. 
Blah blah blah justifiction, blah blah blah 12 year old throwing a rebellious fit blah blah
Not only whiny justification, also Incorrect information.
Alchol certainly is against WOW, your wine have alchohol Jaye? (cue nyquil speech, no Jaye, I don't drink it)
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, Lev. 10: 9
Wine is a mocker, and strong drink is raging Prov 20:1
Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is
made new among you (D&C 27:3–4).
The “pure wine” in Doctrine and Covenants 89:6
is understood to mean new or unfermented grape
juice, since the Word of Wisdom declares
unequivocally against the internal use of alcohol in
any form.
This interpretation is reinforced by the fact that
. . . water was early in the history of the Church
substituted for wine, for sacramental purposes. The revelation reads:
For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not
what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye
partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with
an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the
Father my body which was laid down for you, and
my blood which was shed for the remission of your
sins. [D&C 27:2]. (Widtsoe, Word of Wisdom,
pp. 60–61.)
The wine described as new wine, or pure wine is not grape juice, Percy...but wine in every sense of the word.
Joseph Smith and his close friends enjoyed a bottle here and there to 'lift the spirits' so to speak...and this wasn't for Sacramental purposes either.
In the History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 26, we find the following:
"The council proceeded to investigate certain charges presented by Elder Rigdon against Martin Harris; one was, that he told A.C. Russell, Esq., that Joseph drank too much liquor when he was translating the Book of Mormon;...
"Brother Harris did not tell Esq., Russell that Brother Joseph drank too much liquor while translating the Book of Mormon, but this thing occurred previous to the translating of the book;..."
Martin Harris was one of the three witnesses to the Book of Mormon. The statement by Harris should be compared with a statement found in an affidavit made by Barton Stafford. Stafford, who knew Joseph Smith before he left Palmyra, stated that Smith "was very much addicted to intemperance." (Affidavit of Barton Stafford, dated November 3, 1833, as reprinted in Joseph Smith and Money Digging)
It might be argued that this was prior to the time when the Word of Wisdom was given and that Joseph Smith changed his habits after 1833. Evidence, however, plainly shows that Joseph Smith continued to use alcoholic beverages after the Word of Wisdom was given. Under the date of May 2, 1843, the following statement is recorded in Joseph Smith's History of the Church:
"Wednesday, 3.--Called at the office and drank a glass of wine with Sister Jenetta Richards, made by her mother in England, and reviewed a portion of the conference minutes." (History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 380)
Benjamin F. Johnson, a personal friend of Joseph Smith, wrote the following about Smith: "He was partial to a well supplied table and he did not always refuse the wine that 'maketh the heart glad.'" (A letter by Benjamin F. Johnson to Elder George S. Gibbs, 1903, as printed in The Testimony of Joseph Smith's Best Friend, page 4) The following references appear in Joseph Smith's History of the Church for January, 1836:
"We then partook of some refreshments, and our hearts were made glad with the fruit of the vine." (History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 369)
"Elders Orson Hyde, Luke S. Johnson, and Warren Parrish, then presented the Presidency with three servers of glasses filled with wine to bless. And it fell to my lot to attend to this duty, which I cheerfully discharged. It was then passed round in order, then the cake in the same order; and suffice it to say, our hearts were made glad while partaking of the bounty of earth which was presented, until we had taken our fill;..." (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 378)
Joseph Smith continued to disobey the Word of Wisdom until the day of his death. The History of the Church contains this information concerning an incident in Carthage jail:
"Before the jailor came in, his boy brought in some water, and said the guard wanted some wine. Joseph gave Dr. Richards two dollars to give the guard; but the guard said one was enough, and would take no more.
"The guard immediately sent for a bottle of wine, pipes, and two small papers of tobacco; and one of the guards brought them into the jail soon after the jailor went out. Dr. Richards uncorked the bottle, and presented a glass to Joseph, who tasted, as Brother Taylor and the doctor, and the bottle was then given to the guard, who turned to go out." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, page 616)
We do not know how often Joseph Smith used tobacco, but as the reader will remember (see p. 6 of this book), at one time "he rode through the streets of Nauvoo smoking a cigar." ("Joseph Smith As An Administrator," M.A. thesis, Brigham Young University, May 1969, page 161)
The Mormon leaders have made three important changes concerning the Word of Wisdom in Joseph Smith's History of the Church (for details see page 6 of this book). In one instance, Joseph Smith asked "Brother Markam" to get "a pipe and some tobacco" for the Apostle Willard Richards. These words have been replaced with the word "medicine" in recent editions of the History of the Church. At another time Joseph Smith related that he gave some of the "brethren" a "couple of dollars, with directions to replenish" their supply of "whisky." In modern editions of the History of the Church, 23 words have been deleted from this reference to cover up the fact that Joseph Smith encouraged the "brethren" to disobey the Word of Wisdom. In the third instance, Joseph Smith frankly admitted that he had "drank a glass of beer at moessers." These words have been omitted in recent editions of the History of the Church.
the Apostle John Taylor continued to use alcoholic beverages after Joseph Smith's death. Hosea Stout recorded the following in his diary on June 3, 1847:
"While I was explaining this prests O. Hyde P. P. Pratt and John Taylor also came in so I stoped saying I had been catched twice "Elder Taylor replied to go on and not stop for them. I told him it was nothing but a police meeting and not interesting to them.
"'Never mind says he we are police men too.'
"Says I. 'I hope you will all conform to the rules of the police then.' 'Certainly' says Taylor 'Bring on the jug' says I at which they were presented with a large jug of whiskey.
"This was such an unexpected turn that it was only answered by a peal of laughter & they all paid due respect to the jug...
"After drinking says Parley 'I have traveled these streets all times of the night & never before have I saw a police man but now I know where to find them hereafter' alluding to the jug.
"'Parley' says I 'do you not know that some things in this kingdom are only spiritually discerned & so with the police.'" (On The Mormon Frontier, The Diary of Hosea Stout, 1844-1861, Vol. 1, p. 259)
All of the early Mormon Apostles seem to have used alcoholic beverages after the Word of Wisdom was given. Joseph Smith made the following statement concerning an incident that happened in 1840: "April 17.--This day the Twelve blessed and drank a bottle of wine at Penworthan, made by Mother Moon forty years before." (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 120) Under the date of April 12, 1845, Hosea Stout recorded in his diary that he attended "a feast of beer and cakes prepared by the old police. The Old police and wives and some of the Twelve were present We had a joyful time as much cakes & beer as we could eat and drink..." (On The Mormon Frontier, The Diary of Hosea Stout, v. 1, p. 34) On July 1, 1845, Hosea Stout recorded:
"This day there was a grand concert...we had also the 12 and other authorities with us, and was also provided with as much beer, wine, cakes &c as we could eat and drink." (Ibid., page 50)
While Joseph Smith and other authorities in the Mormon Church did not observe the Word of Wisdom, others felt that it should be a strict rule for the Church. In the minutes of a Conference held at Far West in 1837 the following statement is found: "The congregation, after a few remarks from Sidney Rigdon, unanimously voted not to support stores and shops selling spirituous liquors, tea, coffee, or tobacco." (History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 524) It is interesting to note that when Joseph Smith opened his store in Nauvoo, it was supplied "with sugar, molasses, glass, salt, tea, coffee &c., purchased in St. Louis." (History of the Church, Vol. 4, page 483) In spite of the vote taken at Far West, not to patronize any store selling these items, Joseph Smith seems t | |
