Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Two, the material from the Journal of Discourses are accurate, and are vouched for in the literature by the speakers themselves as being accurate. No FAIR/FARM counterargument holds any water.


Fair/Farms has nothing to do with it. It's the churches position.
REad their webpage, I link was given with their official position just the other day. I don't expect senile ole Wrenny or Jaye to remember that long ago though.



Look dubbie, the only action the Mormon Church has with this damaging and well documented evidence from their own leaders is to do damage control and hope that the faithful membership will just continue to keep their heads deeply buried in the sand.

BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
[
According to the Book of Jonah...evidently the king and citizens of Nineveh did not consider him to be a false prophet when they heeded his words and repented in sackcloth and ashes.

I would advise you to read the Book of Jonah again.

The people of Nineveh never called Jonah a false prophet. People don't generally heed the warnings of people they consider to be a false prophet.

Now...the second verse of the First Chapter Jonah only says this about what God commanded Jonah to say.

'Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before Me.'

The second verse of Chapter 3 says..."Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee."

Nothing is said about telling Nineveh that it would be overthrown in forty days.

Has the thought occurred to you that perhaps God didn't tell Jonah to say this? That perhaps God instructed him to preach repentance...or else face the wrath of God?

That perhaps this is why the king and the people began repenting fervently as soon as the words left Jonah's mouth?

Kent...there is nothing in the entire book of Jonah that states that the people called Jonah a false prophet. Nothing.

They repented. God saw that they had repented and his anger was cooled.

Jonah is the one who was exceedingly displeased, and even angry. Jonah was the one who set up a booth, and waited for an event that was never to happen.

Jonah fretted that he had been made to look the fool...or the false prophet...but there were NONE who called him thus.

Not really the point I was trying to make, but this is typical of you and Wren to try to change the topic.

The POINT was that Jonah made a Prophecy, then when the lord changed things Jonah was mad at God for making him look bad. Jonah did not give condition's up front, just that the city would be destroyed, it was only later he found out the Lord would change his Prophecy if the people would repent.

Now, this conversation got started when the anti's idjits start claiming Joseph a false Prophet because he made a Prophecy that didn't come true, when there may also have been conditions just as Jonah's Prophecy.

Poor dubbie, When thoroughly kicked your scrawny backside and now you're whimpering like a little schoolchild whaa whaa if you can't hold your own crybaby, why don't you go over on romper roommessage boards. Now as for Joe Smith, people who are willing to remove the rose-colored glasses and honestly look at Joseph Smith through both history and evidence will easily see that he was a false prophet. Now if you can provide any of Smith's prophecies that came to pass, (with conditions from the Lord or not) please do so or else shut the hell up.

Yea, Kitkat, he's just here to give information

Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
[
Dubbs did exactly what I figured he would. He posted the excuse that holds no water. The journals were screened for accuracy of the commentary before they were printed.

Yes, the Journals are an accurate account of what was being preached, and the FAIR/FARM rebuttal is wrong to suggest that the sermons were not accurate in intent and content.

You obviously didn't read what I posted, here's a cliff notes version for the mentally challenged.

"Though the First Presidency endorsed the publication of the Journal, there was no endorsement as to the accuracy or reliability of the contents. There were occasions when the accuracy was questionable. The accounts were not always cleared by the speakers because of problems of time and distance. This was especially true during the persecution of the 1880s which finally forced the cessation of publication."


This is the churches website giving their official version, they did not "proof read" as you are inaccuratly claiming. Your research skills are nill.

Hey gumball, please show us some complaint from any of the leadership of that time, lets say within 15 years should we?

Of course the current leadership of the Mormon Church is going to issue some statement like this, it's called damage control and it's very deceptive and dishonest.

More Prophecy's...

Joseph prophecied before it was known that all spirit is matter. It is in line with modern interpretation of the permanance of matter.

Prophecized Newel K Whitney's faithfulness

He prophecized that Brigham Young would someday lead the church


He predicted a zions camp scourge, and the lifting of the scourge.

He prophezied while being held in Illinois on charges in Missouri he would never go back to Missouri, he never did.


There were times he prophezied of specific sins of people that later came forth and admitted truth of it.

He also Prophecized a Mr. Bennett was plotting to kill him correctly.

Predicted Porter Rockwell would escape Missori and go west

Excuse away. LOL

Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.

Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.

Here we go...

The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate

Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.

1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;

We see that here daily.

Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.

Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.

Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed

He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment

The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate


Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225

He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.


He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.


He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.


Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.

Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney

Many prophecys of healing and healings done.


Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes


Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission


Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.


He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family

He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.


Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.


Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era


Prophecized his enemies would not prosper


Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters

I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away

Come on dubbie, let's play this game fairly should we? please provide references to each alleged prophecy so we can check them out in their entirety before Mormon apologist attempted their faith promoting hogwash on each one.

Let me ask you dubbs,did you by any chance read any of these alleged prophecies in their entirety?
Or did you just get this information from Mormon apologists?