Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ (1 viewing) (1) Guests
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TOPIC: Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 1 Month, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: -300
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Jaye wrote:Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
[
Dubbs did exactly what I figured he would. He posted the excuse that holds no water. The journals were screened for accuracy of the commentary before they were printed.
Yes, the Journals are an accurate account of what was being preached, and the FAIR/FARM rebuttal is wrong to suggest that the sermons were not accurate in intent and content.
You obviously didn't read what I posted, here's a cliff notes version for the mentally challenged.
"Though the First Presidency endorsed the publication of the Journal, there was no endorsement as to the accuracy or reliability of the contents. There were occasions when the accuracy was questionable. The accounts were not always cleared by the speakers because of problems of time and distance. This was especially true during the persecution of the 1880s which finally forced the cessation of publication."
This is the churches website giving their official version, they did not "proof read" as you are inaccuratly claiming. Your research skills are nill.
Hey gumball, please show us some complaint from any of the leadership of that time, lets say within 15 years should we?
Of course the current leadership of the Mormon Church is going to issue some statement like this, it's called damage control and it's very deceptive and dishonest.
If you read the history of the Journal of discourses, it is clear the church never meant for them to be the last word and perfect sermons that have no mistakes. LDS people know this, and your little copy and pastes from anti sites are not only something we've seen here hundreds of times, it's funny to see you think your posting something new.
When the sermons of the JD were given, they were indeed the last word at that time for the LDS. That is why they are upsetting to LDS today and why the GAs advise folks to stay away from God's prophets' words more than a century ago.
Really? The General Authorities advise folks to stay away from the words of God's prophets more than a century ago?
Gee. I wonder why, then, that so much time is spent in the LDS Church pouring over the words and teachings of Joseph Smith?
Why Church history (the officially sanitized version) is taught to children in Primary, Sunday School, Seminary, Young Adults, and in Institute Classes?
If the current G.A.'s are really advising folks to stay away from the words of past prophets...why have so many books based upon the lives and the words of these prophets been touted by the Church?
And why should anyone heed the words of the founder of the faith...and his successors?
Jaye, you are being disingenuous. You know clearly that I meant the sermons in the Journal of Discourses are what the modern LDS authorities try to keep their members from reading.
My bad Wren...I thought I had quoted Kent's remark where he said that the G.A.'s advised folks to stay away from the words of the prophets 100 years ago.
Don't know how I ended up on your quote.I do, senility. 
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Wren (User)
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Posts: 10381
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 1 Month, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: 8
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Dubbs wrote:Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote: The anti's aren't making anything up here. Brigham Young taught a great many things from the pulpit which were contrary and contradictory to our current beliefs.
Dubbs wrote: Didn't say they were making things up in this case clavin, I said they come here to belittle and mock, without looking for understanding.
Only a fool like Dubbs attempts to instruct his those who know better than he. Notice that Dubbs finally admitted "[I] Didn't say they were making things up . . .". However, he did identify legitimate debate as an attempt "to belittle and mock, without looking for understanding." That's a farce, because it describes him and his attitude toward all he opposes here.
I can speak for myself. I bring a legitmate and objective understanding of LDS doctrines to a larger world, and I am absolutely fair about it.
And I never hesitate to metaphorically kick Dubbs' ass around when he cheats. That's what hecan't stand.
You mock those you disagree with, Dubbs.
You belittle other denominations, faiths, and people, Dubbs.
So screw you and the nag you came riding in on, Dubbs. I will always kick your ass when you cheat, and you know it.
 Wow, Wren is blowing a major fuse, Careful tough talking internet nerd, this doesn't really show how much of a coward and wussy you are in real life. No blown fuse, just a thrashing of you, a wannabee bully that doesn't have what it takes.
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 1 Month, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: -300
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Wren wrote:Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.
Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.
Here we go...
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate
The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate
Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.
1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;
We see that here daily.
Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.
Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.
Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed
He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment
The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate
Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225
He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.
He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.
He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.
Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.
Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney
Many prophecys of healing and healings done.
Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes
Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission
Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.
He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family
He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.
Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.
Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era
Prophecized his enemies would not prosper
Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters
I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away
Come on dubbie, let's play this game fairly should we? please provide references to each alleged prophecy so we can check them out in their entirety before Mormon apologist attempted their faith promoting hogwash on each one.
Let me ask you dubbs,did you by any chance read any of these alleged prophecies in their entirety?
Or did you just get this information from Mormon apologists?
I have read all from their orginal source in my lifetime, did you notice many are in the D&C dar dar? Do some research, course Mormon apologists have, you simply copy and paste from anti sites without even knowing if it's truth.
Typical. Hypocrite. As you cut and paste from FAIR/FARM. Have you wondered WHY non-TBM sites carry the accurate words of your prophets, Dubbs?You mean like the time posted from some anti site and it didn't even have the reference nor quote as it appeared in JofD? That type of accuracy?
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 1 Month, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: -300
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There was no warning, it was a prophecy that didn't happen. Really, you seem to add things that are not there cliff. Need to stop this.
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 1 Month, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: -300
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Just Reading wrote:Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.
Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.
Here we go...
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate
The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate
Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.
1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;
We see that here daily.
Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.
Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.
Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed
He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment
The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate
Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225
He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.
He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.
He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.
Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.
Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney
Many prophecys of healing and healings done.
Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes
Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission
Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.
He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family
He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.
Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.
Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era
Prophecized his enemies would not prosper
Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters
I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away
DUBBS WROTE:
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate
HERE READ THIS:
Mormon have always placed a lot of emphasis on Joseph Smith's supposed Civil War prophecy ...the only thing they fail to take into account are the historical record and the facts.
In December 25, 1832, (keep this date in mind) Joseph Smith had this famous revelation...D&C 87:1 reads "VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the that will come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;"
Modern Mormons take this to suggest in hindsight that Joseph Smith was referring to the Civil War, which was still many many years away.... BUT the truth is that South Carolina had for many years been a hotbed of rebellion and had made many threats regarding its sovrenty over the federal government. In 1831, there was a slave rebellion, but it was successfully put down. In 1832* (remember this date?) President Jackson signed into law a new tariff that the S.C. legislature felt was unjust, the state threatened to rebel. In response to South Carolina's threat, Jackson sent seven small naval vessels and a man-of-war to Charleston in November 1832. Interestingly enough Joseph Smith had his revelation only 1 month later...was he a prophet...or an avid reader of the newspaper?
So the sad fact is...ANY Mormon or citizen of the United States could have made that broad prediction regarding a rebellion in South Carolina....
Initially the revelation was taken out of the D&C because it never happend as predicted. People began to quest it's authenticity. When the Cvil War did in fact happen the verse was inserted or re-inserted back into the D&C.
Also note D&C 87:3:
"For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend them selves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations."
Emphasis added.
A review of American history will show that the Confederacy did ask Great Britain and France for assistance, and were refused. The Civil War was not "poured out upon all nations", and did not become a World War. So even with his post hoc prophecy he got it wrong by continuing to embellish the story.
If God really wanted to give Joseph Smith some inside info on the Civil War, why didn't he just say "Lo, heed well my words, my servant Joseph: In 1861 there will be a war between the Northern and Southern states, it will last four years, and 500,000 people will die. The North is going to win. Oh, and by the way, I'd stay away from Carthage, Illinois if I were you."The Civil war started just as Joseph claimed, it is a true prophecy.
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Wren (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 10381
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 1 Month, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: 8
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Dubbs wrote:Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.
Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.
Here we go...
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate
The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate
Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.
1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;
We see that here daily.
Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.
Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.
Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed
He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment
The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate
Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225
He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.
He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.
He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.
Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.
Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney
Many prophecys of healing and healings done.
Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes
Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission
Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.
He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family
He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.
Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.
Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era
Prophecized his enemies would not prosper
Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters
I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away
Come on dubbie, let's play this game fairly should we? please provide references to each alleged prophecy so we can check them out in their entirety before Mormon apologist attempted their faith promoting hogwash on each one.
Let me ask you dubbs,did you by any chance read any of these alleged prophecies in their entirety?
Or did you just get this information from Mormon apologists?
I have read all from their orginal source in my lifetime, did you notice many are in the D&C dar dar? Do some research, course Mormon apologists have, you simply copy and paste from anti sites without even knowing if it's truth.
Typical. Hypocrite. As you cut and paste from FAIR/FARM. Have you wondered WHY non-TBM sites carry the accurate words of your prophets, Dubbs?
You mean like the time posted from some anti site and it didn't even have the reference nor quote as it appeared in JofD? That type of accuracy? That did not happen or you would have posted it as evidence, because you know your word here has no value.
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