Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.

Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.

Here we go...

The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate

Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.

1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;

We see that here daily.

Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.

Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.

Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed

He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment

The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate


Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225

He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.


He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.


He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.


Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.

Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney

Many prophecys of healing and healings done.


Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes


Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission


Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.


He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family

He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.


Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.


Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era


Prophecized his enemies would not prosper


Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters

I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away

DUBBS WROTE:
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

HERE READ THIS:
Mormon have always placed a lot of emphasis on Joseph Smith's supposed Civil War prophecy ...the only thing they fail to take into account are the historical record and the facts.

In December 25, 1832, (keep this date in mind) Joseph Smith had this famous revelation...D&C 87:1 reads "VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the that will come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;"

Modern Mormons take this to suggest in hindsight that Joseph Smith was referring to the Civil War, which was still many many years away.... BUT the truth is that South Carolina had for many years been a hotbed of rebellion and had made many threats regarding its sovrenty over the federal government. In 1831, there was a slave rebellion, but it was successfully put down. In 1832* (remember this date?) President Jackson signed into law a new tariff that the S.C. legislature felt was unjust, the state threatened to rebel. In response to South Carolina's threat, Jackson sent seven small naval vessels and a man-of-war to Charleston in November 1832. Interestingly enough Joseph Smith had his revelation only 1 month later...was he a prophet...or an avid reader of the newspaper?

So the sad fact is...ANY Mormon or citizen of the United States could have made that broad prediction regarding a rebellion in South Carolina....

Initially the revelation was taken out of the D&C because it never happend as predicted. People began to quest it's authenticity. When the Cvil War did in fact happen the verse was inserted or re-inserted back into the D&C.

Also note D&C 87:3:
"For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend them selves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations."
Emphasis added.

A review of American history will show that the Confederacy did ask Great Britain and France for assistance, and were refused. The Civil War was not "poured out upon all nations", and did not become a World War. So even with his post hoc prophecy he got it wrong by continuing to embellish the story.

If God really wanted to give Joseph Smith some inside info on the Civil War, why didn't he just say "Lo, heed well my words, my servant Joseph: In 1861 there will be a war between the Northern and Southern states, it will last four years, and 500,000 people will die. The North is going to win. Oh, and by the way, I'd stay away from Carthage, Illinois if I were you."

The Civil war started just as Joseph claimed, it is a true prophecy.

Clearly Dubbs does not know his history, and now is sounding like WRZ when in full retreat.

JS was describing the contemporary situation in 1831-1832, the Secession Crisis because of South Carolina's outrage to the Tariff of Abominations. The crisis ended with Congress passing a reduced tariff and Jackson putting every secessionist leader that he would hang them if there were a rebellion.

Thus, Joseph was talking about what was happening right then. He was wrong. It didn't happen when he thought it would. He never mentioned the date of 1861, which in itself is not a defense for JS. I could prophesy that either Jaye or I or JR or WW or BLogan or KitKate or Blondie would kick Dubbs' ass in discussion this week, and James (if he were here) would write, "True Word!"

And Dubbs now is ignoring his other defeat, the interpretations of the prophecies of Jonah, Ezekiel, etc., where Jaye and Bearyb thoroughly thumped him.

Gotta read all the material, Dubbs: can't just cherry pick and have anyone believe you.

And he admitted earlier that the sermons from the Journal of Discourses are accurate renditions of what the church leaders were preaching to the saints.

And it's only Thursday. What else is he going to break?

Jaye wrote:

Really? The General Authorities advise folks to stay away from the words of God's prophets more than a century ago?

If they are "advising" this, I'm sure not aware of it. Never heard any such thing is the last General Conference. But then, they are more centered on Christ and family wouldn't you agree?

Jaye wrote:

Gee. I wonder why, then, that so much time is spent in the LDS Church pouring over the words and teachings of Joseph Smith?

The Teachings of Joseph Smith are being studied for the next two years, aren't they? From the First Vision to Repentance to the Priesthood to Leading in the Lord's Way to the Power of Forgiving to the Family.....
Are those teachings not important to you?

Jaye wrote:

Why Church history (the officially sanitized version) is taught to children in Primary, Sunday School, Seminary, Young Adults, and in Institute Classes?

Some of the current lessons in Primary are; Heavenly Father's Plan, Jesus is the Son of Heavenly Father, I Am Thankful for Fish.... And what exactly do you propose?
I grew up Catholic. I learned about Sacraments, Confessions, Prayer, Priesthood. They never brought up the Spanish Inquisition or what some Pope might have done. I guess that was the "officially sanitized version". Or could it be that the GOSPEL is what is important. Not who you think went "crawling back" to who. Ya think?


Jaye wrote:

And why should anyone heed the words of the founder of the faith...and his successors?

That is what we do in the LDS Faith as it pertains to the foundation of the faith, that being, faith in Jesus Christ and "His" Plan of Salvation for us. Is it not? What could possibly be more important?

I've already pointed out how doctrine is brought about in the Church. It's already been pointed out that the Journal of Discourses is NOT doctrine. No one in or out of the Faith can claim it is. The Church isn't "afraid" of its members reading it. As a matter of fact you can find references to it in some of the Church's materials. You can down load it for FREE from the Church's BYU website. It doesn't contain any disclaimers or rebuttals. So any claim that we are trying to be "protected" from what is in it is false.

Of course if dwelling on "those unsanitized events" are important to your faith, then dwell away. That is your choice. That doesn't make anyone else's faith less than yours.

Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.

Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.

Here we go...

The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate

Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.

1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;

We see that here daily.

Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.

Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.

Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed

He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment

The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate


Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225

He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.


He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.


He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.


Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.

Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney

Many prophecys of healing and healings done.


Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes


Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission


Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.


He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family

He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.


Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.


Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era


Prophecized his enemies would not prosper


Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters

I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away

DUBBS WROTE:
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

HERE READ THIS:
Mormon have always placed a lot of emphasis on Joseph Smith's supposed Civil War prophecy ...the only thing they fail to take into account are the historical record and the facts.

In December 25, 1832, (keep this date in mind) Joseph Smith had this famous revelation...D&C 87:1 reads "VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the that will come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;"

Modern Mormons take this to suggest in hindsight that Joseph Smith was referring to the Civil War, which was still many many years away.... BUT the truth is that South Carolina had for many years been a hotbed of rebellion and had made many threats regarding its sovrenty over the federal government. In 1831, there was a slave rebellion, but it was successfully put down. In 1832* (remember this date?) President Jackson signed into law a new tariff that the S.C. legislature felt was unjust, the state threatened to rebel. In response to South Carolina's threat, Jackson sent seven small naval vessels and a man-of-war to Charleston in November 1832. Interestingly enough Joseph Smith had his revelation only 1 month later...was he a prophet...or an avid reader of the newspaper?

So the sad fact is...ANY Mormon or citizen of the United States could have made that broad prediction regarding a rebellion in South Carolina....

Initially the revelation was taken out of the D&C because it never happend as predicted. People began to quest it's authenticity. When the Cvil War did in fact happen the verse was inserted or re-inserted back into the D&C.

Also note D&C 87:3:
"For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend them selves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations."
Emphasis added.

A review of American history will show that the Confederacy did ask Great Britain and France for assistance, and were refused. The Civil War was not "poured out upon all nations", and did not become a World War. So even with his post hoc prophecy he got it wrong by continuing to embellish the story.

If God really wanted to give Joseph Smith some inside info on the Civil War, why didn't he just say "Lo, heed well my words, my servant Joseph: In 1861 there will be a war between the Northern and Southern states, it will last four years, and 500,000 people will die. The North is going to win. Oh, and by the way, I'd stay away from Carthage, Illinois if I were you."

The Civil war started just as Joseph claimed, it is a true prophecy.

"LOL" hey dubbs my prophecy is the sun will set later today and will rise again tomorrow
Wow Dubbs if it happens will that make me a Prophet "LOL"

Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
[b
Ok dubbs, why don't you just save us the hassle of your little games and just show us any prophecy from any Mormon leader that came to pass.

Ahh Grasshopper, when you are ready to learn, the teacher will appear, read and study, maybe some day you learn truth.

Here we go...

The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

The saints would prosper and thrive in the Rocky Mountains-accurate

Funny one, in D&C 122 He Prophecied this.

1 The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;

We see that here daily.

Section 121 says he will return to his friends soon, this came true.

Section 122 also says he will be imprisoned many times throughout his life, this came true.

Many times he prophesied that though imprisoned, no one would be killed

He then Prophesied his death in his final imprisonment

The Word of Wisdom is Prophecy that is accurate


Joseph "prophesied that within five years we should be out of the power of our old enemies, whether they were apostates or of the world; and told the brethren to record it, that when it comes to pass they need not say they had forgotten the saying." This is recorded in History of the Church , Vol. 6, p. 225

He correctly prophesied the whigg party would be decimated. In fact it no longer exists.


He correctly prophesied of the destruction of Jackson country Missouri.


He correctly prohesied that the hearts of the children would be turned to their fathers thru geneology.


Section 5 of the D&C correctly prophecys about the three witness.

Many prophetic miricles involving Newel K Whitney

Many prophecys of healing and healings done.


Joseph predicted New York and Boston would one day have stakes


Prophecized of a man named Dan Jones would serve a mission


Prophecized that Signey Rigdon would be a spokesman for the church, which also fulfils a Book of Mormon prophecy.


He correctly Prophecized that a Brother Markham would escape jail and safely return to his family

He correctly Prophecized in D&C 118 that the apostles would go into far west and lay the cornerstone to the temple, at the time the saints were afraid of far west and the mobs there, but did so, fulfilling the Prophecy.


Joseph Read peoples minds in prophetic ways many times.


Prophecized of the end of the Kirtland era


Prophecized his enemies would not prosper


Prophecized slaves would rize up against there masters

I have more, but you get the idea. Bash away

DUBBS WROTE:
The American Civil war and how it would start-accurate

HERE READ THIS:
Mormon have always placed a lot of emphasis on Joseph Smith's supposed Civil War prophecy ...the only thing they fail to take into account are the historical record and the facts.

In December 25, 1832, (keep this date in mind) Joseph Smith had this famous revelation...D&C 87:1 reads "VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the that will come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;"

Modern Mormons take this to suggest in hindsight that Joseph Smith was referring to the Civil War, which was still many many years away.... BUT the truth is that South Carolina had for many years been a hotbed of rebellion and had made many threats regarding its sovrenty over the federal government. In 1831, there was a slave rebellion, but it was successfully put down. In 1832* (remember this date?) President Jackson signed into law a new tariff that the S.C. legislature felt was unjust, the state threatened to rebel. In response to South Carolina's threat, Jackson sent seven small naval vessels and a man-of-war to Charleston in November 1832. Interestingly enough Joseph Smith had his revelation only 1 month later...was he a prophet...or an avid reader of the newspaper?

So the sad fact is...ANY Mormon or citizen of the United States could have made that broad prediction regarding a rebellion in South Carolina....

Initially the revelation was taken out of the D&C because it never happend as predicted. People began to quest it's authenticity. When the Cvil War did in fact happen the verse was inserted or re-inserted back into the D&C.

Also note D&C 87:3:
"For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend them selves against other nations; and then war shall be poured out upon all nations."
Emphasis added.

A review of American history will show that the Confederacy did ask Great Britain and France for assistance, and were refused. The Civil War was not "poured out upon all nations", and did not become a World War. So even with his post hoc prophecy he got it wrong by continuing to embellish the story.

If God really wanted to give Joseph Smith some inside info on the Civil War, why didn't he just say "Lo, heed well my words, my servant Joseph: In 1861 there will be a war between the Northern and Southern states, it will last four years, and 500,000 people will die. The North is going to win. Oh, and by the way, I'd stay away from Carthage, Illinois if I were you."

The Civil war started just as Joseph claimed, it is a true prophecy.

"LOL" hey dubbs my prophecy is the sun will set later today and will rise again tomorrow
Wow Dubbs if it happens will that make me a Prophet "LOL"

I'm just watching and waiting for BLogan to get here and give Dubbs his daily Butt Kickin!