Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Jaye, you don't go to church to take the sacrament?

Jaye doesn't go to church anymore, he "claims" it's because of health reasons, but then contradicts himself by saying he goes to the Temple, which is a similar situation as sitting in church for a couple hours, probably worse for what he claims he's not going for. (allergy's to carpet glue and perfumes) So in reality, I think he doens't go because he just doesn't believe much of the doctrines of the church anymore, he doesn't believe we are the one true church, he doesn't believe the Prophets are inspired, He doesn't believe the D&C is scripture, but again contradicts that by quoting how he follows the letter of the law in the word of wisdom)


To top it all off, he claims to take the sacrament weekly, but uses real wine, he makes. He's out there like a black hole in space.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs, in response to Jaye Here's the rub cliffy, God has his mouthpeice on earth, in my church, their called Prophets, they speak for God, and they have said it, good enough for good LDS people.

And that is why, Dubbs, when BY spoke to the people, he spoke doctrine and policy and living scripture.


And....CHECKMATE!!!


Not if it goes against scripture.

Then I have nothing to worry about when I use homemade wine for our Sacrament.

Because this is what the Bible, the Book of Mormon...AND the D&C has stated that Jesus Christ instructed for Sacramental use.

And until Church Headquarters follows correct procedure and inducts the claimed prohibition on wine for Sacrament into scriptural doctrine...I have nothing to worry about.

And my Bishops and Stake Presidents have all known this to be true.

If that's what the spirit is telling you, course one hint you could be wrong is you are the only LDS person I have ever known that does this. Huge hint you are just being like a childish teenager throwing a hissy fit over something you percieve as a big deal.

Another hint would be look at the churches current doctrine on Alcohol, but I digress.

Course just a little of alchohol is not bad eh Jaye? I guess a little adultry or other sin is not bad either? Slippery slope your on, errr, slid down.

Dubbs, do you truly believe that your bishop, your stake president, and the regional authorities would approve of what you are doing here?

You are the perfect example of how one letter turns "reason" into "treason", and that is what you are committing against the LDS church with your antics. You lie, you cheat, you fabricate, you swear, you name call, and you say you are a good LDS person.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
WaynesWorld wrote:

But I remember when polygamy was a prerequisite for Celestial exaltation. That has now changed...the root of that doctrine continues to die out and wither. And I'm glad to see that happening.

You must be over 100 then if you remember things taught about Polygamy.

Fact is, that was never taught about Polygamy, that is was essential, maybe it was a test for those it was asked to practice it, which was a small percentage of the church, so how could most of the church not practice it if they believed it was a requirement for salvation? Everyone would have been doing right? Makes no sense, and proves you are wrong that it was taught as an essential thing.

Oh for the love of PETE, Kent. The Mormons never taught that polygamy was essential for salvation...they taught that it was requisite for EXALTATION.

Show your proof.

Section 132 of the LDS Doctrine & Covenants still states that Polygamy is the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and in order to get into the Celestial Kingdom, Mormons must have multiple wives.

Because Mormons still hold D&C Section 132 as cannon - Mormons still practice "spiritual" polygamy and teach that Polygamy is the only way a Mormon can become a God. Two current Mormon Apostles have more than 1 spiritual wife. Russell M. Nelson On April 6, 2006 married Wendy L. Watson in the temple for "time and all eternity", his second spiritual wife.


Why did I know you anti's would bring up 132 to misinterpret again. The new and everlasting covenant is the Marriage ordinance you idjit. Course how would you know this, you were LDS for only 14 years.

BZZZT!!! WRONG AGAIN KENT.

He was absolutely correct...and the fact of the matter is...even I knew this by the time I was 14 years of age.

Your religious education is severely lacking.

Then why are we not practicing Polygamy still Dar dar? If new and everlasting covenant means Polygamy and not temple marriage, why are we practicing one and not the other? You are an idiot that really has a deranged few of the faith you don't follow anymore.


Here's what my church says about it, not sure where your getting what your saying from, but not my church..

"The covenant of eternal marriage is necessary for exaltation. The Lord revealed through Joseph Smith: "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase" (D&C 131:1–4" LDS.ORG beliefs


Game, set and MATCH

I'll tell you EXACTLY why we're not practicing polygamy today.

Because Wilford Woodruff knew full well that Utah would not achieve statehood...and the Federal Government would continue to harass the Mormons until the practice ceased.

He received that very conveniently timed 'revelation' from God which resulted in the conception of the 1890 Manifesto.

Here is more:

"During his tenure, the church faced a number of legal battles with the United States, primarily over the practice of plural marriage. The church faced a real possibility of being destroyed as a viable legal entity, as it was faced with disfranchisement and federal confiscation of its property, including temples.[4]

Citing revelation, Woodruff issued the 1890 Manifesto which ended the church's official support of plural marriage in the territory of the United States and directed Latter-day Saints to only enter into marriages that are recognized by the laws in the areas in which they reside. He wrote in his diary, "I have arrived at the point in the history of my life as the president of the Church ... where I am under the necessity of acting for the temporal salvation of the Church".[5] Some historians[who?] consider the 1890 Manifesto to be Woodruff's most important contribution to the church.[citation needed]

Despite the Manifesto, historians D. Michael Quinn, B. Carmon Hardy, and Richard S. Van Wagoner have asserted that Woodruff continued to secretly encourage, or at least allow, new plural marriages to be performed in Mexico, Canada, and upon the high seas.[citation needed] The church would not fully renounce the practice of plural marriage until Joseph F. Smith's Second Manifesto of 1904."

So...two previous prophets declared plural marriage to be an eternal principle, to which obedience and adherence to this principle was commanded by God.

And these men swore sacred oaths that they would never disobey or renounce this principle.

But...the fact that the feds were threatening to confiscate every last bit of land, property, and/or buildings including Temples if the polygamy continued...conveniently triggered the Manifesto.

That's not the only time this has happened.

Spencer Kimball's announcement of receiving revelation that blacks would be granted the priesthood was triggered by the fact that Kimball had just been subpoenaed to appear before the Court in a lawsuit against the Church, in which the family of a black boy scout had decided to sue the Mormon Church because their son could not hold a position of leadership in his Boy Scout troop because he did not hold the priesthood.

BAMMO!!!REVELATION RECEIVED...BLACKS CAN NOW HOLD THE PRIESTHOOD. Even though every prophet before him went along with the bigotry that had stemmed from Brigham Young's racist ideas.



Wrong, we're not practicing it because it is not the everlasting covenant mentioned in the D&C 132. As I showed you from the churches beliefs on their webpage. Are you too proud to admit you are wrong about the everlasting covenant being marriage even? Doubt it.

Dubbs, do you truly believe that your bishop, your stake president, and the regional authorities would approve of what you are doing here?

You are the perfect example of how one letter turns "reason" into "treason", and that is what you are committing against the LDS church with your antics. You lie, you cheat, you fabricate, you swear, you name call, and you say you are a good LDS person.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
WaynesWorld wrote:

But I remember when polygamy was a prerequisite for Celestial exaltation. That has now changed...the root of that doctrine continues to die out and wither. And I'm glad to see that happening.

You must be over 100 then if you remember things taught about Polygamy.

Fact is, that was never taught about Polygamy, that is was essential, maybe it was a test for those it was asked to practice it, which was a small percentage of the church, so how could most of the church not practice it if they believed it was a requirement for salvation? Everyone would have been doing right? Makes no sense, and proves you are wrong that it was taught as an essential thing.

Oh for the love of PETE, Kent. The Mormons never taught that polygamy was essential for salvation...they taught that it was requisite for EXALTATION.

Show your proof.

Section 132 of the LDS Doctrine & Covenants still states that Polygamy is the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and in order to get into the Celestial Kingdom, Mormons must have multiple wives.

Because Mormons still hold D&C Section 132 as cannon - Mormons still practice "spiritual" polygamy and teach that Polygamy is the only way a Mormon can become a God. Two current Mormon Apostles have more than 1 spiritual wife. Russell M. Nelson On April 6, 2006 married Wendy L. Watson in the temple for "time and all eternity", his second spiritual wife.


Why did I know you anti's would bring up 132 to misinterpret again. The new and everlasting covenant is the Marriage ordinance you idjit. Course how would you know this, you were LDS for only 14 years.

BZZZT!!! WRONG AGAIN KENT.

He was absolutely correct...and the fact of the matter is...even I knew this by the time I was 14 years of age.

Your religious education is severely lacking.

Then why are we not practicing Polygamy still Dar dar? If new and everlasting covenant means Polygamy and not temple marriage, why are we practicing one and not the other? You are an idiot that really has a deranged few of the faith you don't follow anymore.


Here's what my church says about it, not sure where your getting what your saying from, but not my church..

"The covenant of eternal marriage is necessary for exaltation. The Lord revealed through Joseph Smith: "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; and in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; and if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase" (D&C 131:1–4" LDS.ORG beliefs


Game, set and MATCH

I'll tell you EXACTLY why we're not practicing polygamy today.

Because Wilford Woodruff knew full well that Utah would not achieve statehood...and the Federal Government would continue to harass the Mormons until the practice ceased.

He received that very conveniently timed 'revelation' from God which resulted in the conception of the 1890 Manifesto.

Here is more:

"During his tenure, the church faced a number of legal battles with the United States, primarily over the practice of plural marriage. The church faced a real possibility of being destroyed as a viable legal entity, as it was faced with disfranchisement and federal confiscation of its property, including temples.[4]

Citing revelation, Woodruff issued the 1890 Manifesto which ended the church's official support of plural marriage in the territory of the United States and directed Latter-day Saints to only enter into marriages that are recognized by the laws in the areas in which they reside. He wrote in his diary, "I have arrived at the point in the history of my life as the president of the Church ... where I am under the necessity of acting for the temporal salvation of the Church".[5] Some historians[who?] consider the 1890 Manifesto to be Woodruff's most important contribution to the church.[citation needed]

Despite the Manifesto, historians D. Michael Quinn, B. Carmon Hardy, and Richard S. Van Wagoner have asserted that Woodruff continued to secretly encourage, or at least allow, new plural marriages to be performed in Mexico, Canada, and upon the high seas.[citation needed] The church would not fully renounce the practice of plural marriage until Joseph F. Smith's Second Manifesto of 1904."

So...two previous prophets declared plural marriage to be an eternal principle, to which obedience and adherence to this principle was commanded by God.

And these men swore sacred oaths that they would never disobey or renounce this principle.

But...the fact that the feds were threatening to confiscate every last bit of land, property, and/or buildings including Temples if the polygamy continued...conveniently triggered the Manifesto.

That's not the only time this has happened.

Spencer Kimball's announcement of receiving revelation that blacks would be granted the priesthood was triggered by the fact that Kimball had just been subpoenaed to appear before the Court in a lawsuit against the Church, in which the family of a black boy scout had decided to sue the Mormon Church because their son could not hold a position of leadership in his Boy Scout troop because he did not hold the priesthood.

BAMMO!!!REVELATION RECEIVED...BLACKS CAN NOW HOLD THE PRIESTHOOD. Even though every prophet before him went along with the bigotry that had stemmed from Brigham Young's racist ideas.



Wrong, we're not practicing it because it is not the everlasting covenant mentioned in the D&C 132. As I showed you from the churches beliefs on their webpage. Are you too proud to admit you are wrong about the everlasting covenant being marriage even? Doubt it.

Wrong. The only reason the Mormons discontinued polygamy was because they stood to lose everything.

And Brigham Young would disagree wholeheartedly with you...as he was the one who stated that the everlasting covenant of marriage was part and parcel with plural marriage.

But we aren't talking about what the Church teaches today. We are talking about what was taught under the leadership of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

It is your opinion and that of an apostate that teaches that the church stopped polygamy for anything other than it was a Prophet of Gods revelation.

Show your proof they taught it as essential to go to heaven. Don't cop out with "I've shown it before" tigerlily, you haven't.

Dubbs, do you truly believe that your bishop, your stake president, and the regional authorities would approve of what you are doing here?

You are the perfect example of how one letter turns "reason" into "treason", and that is what you are committing against the LDS church with your antics. You lie, you cheat, you fabricate, you swear, you name call, and you say you are a good LDS person.

Dubbs wrote:
Girl Raised in the South wrote:
Jaye, you don't go to church to take the sacrament?

Jaye doesn't go to church anymore, he "claims" it's because of health reasons, but then contradicts himself by saying he goes to the Temple, which is a similar situation as sitting in church for a couple hours, probably worse for what he claims he's not going for. (allergy's to carpet glue and perfumes) So in reality, I think he doens't go because he just doesn't believe much of the doctrines of the church anymore, he doesn't believe we are the one true church, he doesn't believe the Prophets are inspired, He doesn't believe the D&C is scripture, but again contradicts that by quoting how he follows the letter of the law in the word of wisdom)


To top it all off, he claims to take the sacrament weekly, but uses real wine, he makes. He's out there like a black hole in space.

Dubbs, do you truly believe that your bishop, your stake president, and the regional authorities would approve of what you are doing here?

You are the perfect example of how one letter turns "reason" into "treason", and that is what you are committing against the LDS church with your antics. You lie, you cheat, you fabricate, you swear, you name call, and you say you are a good LDS person.

Girl from the South, Jaye pulls Dubbs' logic inside and out when Dubbs' tries to argue with him. And Dubbs can't stand that. Watch. Dubbs will become more and more vicious with Jaye as Jaye proceeds to thrash him on logic, evidence, and analysis.