BLogan (User)
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Posts: 287
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 4 Months, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: 15
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Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
I want to state that Brigham Young's teachings concerning Blacks, in my opinion, was wrong. I do not know why the Priesthood was withheld. It has been restored, I sustain this. Any other statements that Brigham Young made concerning Blacks I consider not to be of God and I condemn them. That does not mean that I do not sustain him as a Prophet of God.
In the Bible...it is written that a man may be known by his words and his actions.
Jesus said..."Either make the tree good, and his fruit good, or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
So...is it possible that a man who has spoken such hateful and bigoted words regarding our black brothers and sisters can still be considered to be the mouthpiece of the Lord?
The Lord also said..."Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father, which is in heaven.
Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then I will profess unto them...I never knew you: depart from me, ye that worketh iniquity."
I'm sorry Thomas...I disagree with you on this point. For one thing...I don't believe that Brigham Young was chosen by God to lead the Church...although the perilous times called for a strong leader...and he was certainly a strong man...a strong willed man...and a man who brooked no argument.
I do not believe that God would select a man who's heart was filled with such hatred and bigotry for his black brothers and sisters.
Especially since Joseph Smith had already been ordaining worthy black men to the priesthood for some time before his death.
And if the founder of the faith, a man who was said to see God the Father, and the Son face to face...and said to receive the priesthood directly from Peter, James and John, had not been informed that the blacks were not worthy to receive the priesthood in their mortal life...I do not believe that God ever instructed Brigham Young to deny it to them.
For me...this places his status as prophet in doubt.
As does his teaching that Christ's Atonement was not sufficient to save sinners...and that their OWN blood must also be shed.
That contradicts everything that Jesus taught...and that the Christian faith believes.
So what are you saying Jaye, if Brigham Young wasn't chosen by God, does that not make every Prophet after him to be in direct line of Authority apostate also?
Not necessarily. It would have to depend upon how closely each man adhered to Christian principles...by their words, and their deeds.
This contradict's LDS doctine though Jay. As we believe the Prophet holds all the Keys as the Prophet, when he dies they are passed to the twelve, who choose a new Prophet, so if Brigham was not supposed to be a Godly chosen Prophet as you are saying, then he didn't hold the Keys, thus none of the other Prophets after him do. Just can't be if your claim is true. The church would not have proper authority, which is what I think you believe but won't say.
First off, being chosen as prophet of the Mormon Church is strictly on a basis of seniority and I don't believe it has ever been done otherwise except for Brigham Young, now if I'm incorrect in my assumption someone please correct me.
Can't you understand that Joseph Smith was clearly never a Prophet of God as evidence proves and never held any such authority or keys so he never had anything to pass onto any successor except a lie.
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BLogan (User)
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Posts: 287
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 4 Months, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: 15
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Uncle_Bud wrote:BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
You are splitting hairs, Jaye.
It does not matter what we think today about whether it was doctrinal then. The Mormon leadership under Young considered it doctrine, which is all that matters.
 Yes? Isn't that pretty much what I've been saying?
This is where Wren's logic get's really far off, just as we have logical thinking Mormons in our day, I'm sure not "all" mormons took Brighams words as scripture, as they weren't in scripture. As my great grandfather questioned certain doctrine taught by Brigham in his journal, I'm sure he wasn't the only one.
dubbie, the point is that Brigham Young was sustained by the Mormon membership of that day as being a Prophet, get it in your thick skull gumball, Brigham Young taught and believed these things as the evidence proves and it doesn't mean squat what your grandfather or the membership thought about it. the evidence proves that Brigham Young was not a Prophet of God.
I always enjoy seeing BLogan slap ole dubbs aroung and that GUMBALL name really cracks me up.Sadly so many Mormons are just like dubbie in their thinking, they can be shown the evidence and they still prefer to keep there heads buried deeply in the sand. I wonder if they're still going to attempt using their excuses on Judgment Day.
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BLogan (User)
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Posts: 287
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 4 Months, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: 15
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Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs: Christ said this is the last dispensation of time, it will not be taken away until he comes again.
====
No, man said that Christ said. Big difference.
Christ said this is the last days, same difference.
Or are you denying that we are in the last days? Have you read Revelations at all? Ask your preacher to have a lesson on it, it's clear there we are.
dubbs, I thought you anti-Christian Bible bashers didn't believe in the Bible.
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Dubbs (User)
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Posts: 6280
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 4 Months, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: -376
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BLogan wrote:Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
You are splitting hairs, Jaye.
It does not matter what we think today about whether it was doctrinal then. The Mormon leadership under Young considered it doctrine, which is all that matters.
Yes? Isn't that pretty much what I've been saying?
This is where Wren's logic get's really far off, just as we have logical thinking Mormons in our day, I'm sure not "all" mormons took Brighams words as scripture, as they weren't in scripture. As my great grandfather questioned certain doctrine taught by Brigham in his journal, I'm sure he wasn't the only one.
dubbie, the point is that Brigham Young was sustained by the Mormon membership of that day as being a Prophet, get it in your thick skull gumball, Brigham Young taught and believed these things as the evidence proves and it doesn't mean squat what your grandfather or the membership thought about it. the evidence proves that Brigham Young was not a Prophet of God.What you and your ilk will never seemingly understand is our doctrine is found in scripture. Period. End of discussion. You ever going to answer questions?
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My ignore list... The The The The Betz, Kitcat, and the blonde. They have nothing of substance to say anyway, but just like to add smarmy comments to the conversations, so why bother with the the constant smariness?
Wren would like to think he's ignoring me, but he can't, won't and will not.
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Dubbs (User)
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Posts: 6280
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 4 Months, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: -376
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Uncle_Bud wrote:BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
You are splitting hairs, Jaye.
It does not matter what we think today about whether it was doctrinal then. The Mormon leadership under Young considered it doctrine, which is all that matters.
Yes? Isn't that pretty much what I've been saying?
This is where Wren's logic get's really far off, just as we have logical thinking Mormons in our day, I'm sure not "all" mormons took Brighams words as scripture, as they weren't in scripture. As my great grandfather questioned certain doctrine taught by Brigham in his journal, I'm sure he wasn't the only one.
dubbie, the point is that Brigham Young was sustained by the Mormon membership of that day as being a Prophet, get it in your thick skull gumball, Brigham Young taught and believed these things as the evidence proves and it doesn't mean squat what your grandfather or the membership thought about it. the evidence proves that Brigham Young was not a Prophet of God.
I always enjoy seeing BLogan slap ole dubbs aroung and that GUMBALL name really cracks me up.You remind me of my 7 year old, everything thing relating to childish things cracks him up. How old are you ?
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My ignore list... The The The The Betz, Kitcat, and the blonde. They have nothing of substance to say anyway, but just like to add smarmy comments to the conversations, so why bother with the the constant smariness?
Wren would like to think he's ignoring me, but he can't, won't and will not.
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Dubbs (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 6280
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Re:Documents raise questions about religious influ 4 Months, 4 Weeks ago
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Karma: -376
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BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs: Christ said this is the last dispensation of time, it will not be taken away until he comes again.
====
No, man said that Christ said. Big difference.
Christ said this is the last days, same difference.
Or are you denying that we are in the last days? Have you read Revelations at all? Ask your preacher to have a lesson on it, it's clear there we are.
dubbs, I thought you anti-Christian Bible bashers didn't believe in the Bible.
Never said that. Typical anti nutjob making things up or not comprehending simple english.
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My ignore list... The The The The Betz, Kitcat, and the blonde. They have nothing of substance to say anyway, but just like to add smarmy comments to the conversations, so why bother with the the constant smariness?
Wren would like to think he's ignoring me, but he can't, won't and will not.
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
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