Dubbs wrote:
I know there tough cliffy, and are just more contradictions to your beliefs, so I understand not wanting to answer them.


And congrats, your getting away for a week, maybe my words are helping you realizse you need to vacation more. Or maybe you are working up there?

As I said...I will delve into your questions after I return.

Not that it's any of your business...but this is a business trip. Big paving, seal coating and striping job on a mall. Big money.

One more thing here Kent...my life is my life. My beliefs are my beliefs. There are no contradictions in my life, or in my beliefs. They are wholly mine, and mine alone.

My relationship with the Lord is between Him...and me. The manner in which I serve Him, is between Him...and me. The manner in which I utilize the gifts and responsibilities which HE has given me, is between Him...and me.

I see no contradictions in my beliefs...but I do see certain contradictions in YOUR beliefs.

But...your beliefs are your beliefs...and they are between YOU...and the Lord.

Quit concerning yourself so much with what I believe, and say, and do...and concentrate on your own life and shortcomings.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
The youngest, Emily, is afraid when her turn to be born comes around, their parents will be tired of having kids, and she won't be born into their family. .

Well, it doesn't really say that she will be stuck without being able to get a body which you claimed it said earlier, just that she would go to a different family.


Who knows how we were chosen to come to a certain family or situation. I've always wondered about that, how was I so lucky to be born into a wonderful family with wonderful parents in a great area, while others are born into such abusive and awful situations. Nobody knows, could it have had to do with what we needed to learn in this life? Or what we did in the pre earth life? Could be, who knows.

Oh for the love of Pete Kent...when I mentioned the concept of having'fear of being stuck without a body if parents didn't continue reproducing...that was because that was what quite a few people had taken the play to mean.

That those children alloted to them would not have their opportunity on earth.

It was THEIR misconception...and one of many common misconceptions...and precisely why Spencer Kimball said what he did about the play.

As for why some children were born into horrible abuse...or famine...or plague...or a third world country torn by war...or born with AIDS...I sincerely DOUBT that this occurred because of what they 'needed to learn on earth'.

It is what it is.

Jesus said...'Woe unto the world because of offenses...for it must needs be that offenses come...but woe unto that man by whom the offense cometh!'

The reason some are subjected into the life they are subjected into is because of Free Will. If God interfered in world affairs...then Free Will is naught.

The reason some are born into chaos and abuse...is solely the blame of mankind. It is what it is. We are the authors of our own miseries.

But isn't it wonderful that some were fortunate enough to be blessed with wonderful parents. How lucky for them...and how unlucky for those who suffer abuse and/or death at the hands of their parents...eh?


We don't know, I don't know, you don't know why people are born into situations. But your comments that God wouldn't put people in situations is a false premise. God has always tested and tried his people, See Job, Jonah, Moses, etc etc etc, Is it not possible people were born into situations for similar reasons? To be tested and tried? It will be interesting to hear the reasons on the other side, some maybe as you say, the doing of Mankind, but I don't think that's always the case.

Perhaps you need a refresher course in human sexuality, and the facts of life.

People are born into situations because men and women participated in sexual encounters.

Now there have been those who believe that people who were not valiant in their first estate are relegated to being born into third world countries.

Just as Brigham Young taught, and so many bought hook line and sinker, that the black race were not valiant, and as a result of 'fence-sitting' would NOT receive the blessings of the priesthood in their second estate...no matter how good, and decent and otherwise worthy they might have been.

So...the believe that God is testing these people, and that they are relegated into being born into poverty, squalor, famine, ethnic wars, and being born to HIV positive mothers.

They are simply born to suffer...and usually die within a short period of time.

God's will? Certainly not.

God's doing? Absolutely not.

But it is human nature to try to come up with any kind of reason why they might be suffering...and the usual deduction is that it is somehow God's will that they suffer...or that they are being...'tried and tested'.

Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
The youngest, Emily, is afraid when her turn to be born comes around, their parents will be tired of having kids, and she won't be born into their family. .

Well, it doesn't really say that she will be stuck without being able to get a body which you claimed it said earlier, just that she would go to a different family.


Who knows how we were chosen to come to a certain family or situation. I've always wondered about that, how was I so lucky to be born into a wonderful family with wonderful parents in a great area, while others are born into such abusive and awful situations. Nobody knows, could it have had to do with what we needed to learn in this life? Or what we did in the pre earth life? Could be, who knows.

Oh for the love of Pete Kent...when I mentioned the concept of having'fear of being stuck without a body if parents didn't continue reproducing...that was because that was what quite a few people had taken the play to mean.

That those children alloted to them would not have their opportunity on earth.

It was THEIR misconception...and one of many common misconceptions...and precisely why Spencer Kimball said what he did about the play.

As for why some children were born into horrible abuse...or famine...or plague...or a third world country torn by war...or born with AIDS...I sincerely DOUBT that this occurred because of what they 'needed to learn on earth'.

It is what it is.

Jesus said...'Woe unto the world because of offenses...for it must needs be that offenses come...but woe unto that man by whom the offense cometh!'

The reason some are subjected into the life they are subjected into is because of Free Will. If God interfered in world affairs...then Free Will is naught.

The reason some are born into chaos and abuse...is solely the blame of mankind. It is what it is. We are the authors of our own miseries.

But isn't it wonderful that some were fortunate enough to be blessed with wonderful parents. How lucky for them...and how unlucky for those who suffer abuse and/or death at the hands of their parents...eh?


We don't know, I don't know, you don't know why people are born into situations. But your comments that God wouldn't put people in situations is a false premise. God has always tested and tried his people, See Job, Jonah, Moses, etc etc etc, Is it not possible people were born into situations for similar reasons? To be tested and tried? It will be interesting to hear the reasons on the other side, some maybe as you say, the doing of Mankind, but I don't think that's always the case.

Perhaps you need a refresher course in human sexuality, and the facts of life.

People are born into situations because men and women participated in sexual encounters.

Now there have been those who believe that people who were not valiant in their first estate are relegated to being born into third world countries.

Just as Brigham Young taught, and so many bought hook line and sinker, that the black race were not valiant, and as a result of 'fence-sitting' would NOT receive the blessings of the priesthood in their second estate...no matter how good, and decent and otherwise worthy they might have been.

So...the believe that God is testing these people, and that they are relegated into being born into poverty, squalor, famine, ethnic wars, and being born to HIV positive mothers.

They are simply born to suffer...and usually die within a short period of time.

God's will? Certainly not.

God's doing? Absolutely not.

But it is human nature to try to come up with any kind of reason why they might be suffering...and the usual deduction is that it is somehow God's will that they suffer...or that they are being...'tried and tested'.

Not saying I'm right in my thinkings on this subject, I merely gave a possible scenario, as I said, I don't know, you don't know. But you sure seem to think you do here.

Jaye wrote:
There are no contradictions in my life, or in my beliefs.

Let's see, you "claim" to be a member of the LDS faith who's core beliefs are...

That we have the priesthood, and that this preisthood has been given from God as a necessity to do saving ordinances,

You say it is not necessary


The church you "claim" to belong to says that the Word of Wisdom includes not drinking wine or alcohol.

You do both


The church you "claim" to belong to says it is the one true faith.


You say it is not


The church you "claim" to belong to says it has Prophets that are Gods mouth peice on earth,


You say you don't need them


The church you "claim" to belong to says baptism by proper authority is a necessity

You say it is not


Yea, no contradictions in your life Jaye



They are wholly mine, and mine alone.


They certainly are yours, you can have them.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
There are no contradictions in my life, or in my beliefs.

Let's see, you "claim" to be a member of the LDS faith who's core beliefs are...

That we have the priesthood, and that this preisthood has been given from God as a necessity to do saving ordinances,

You say it is not necessary


The church you "claim" to belong to says that the Word of Wisdom includes not drinking wine or alcohol.

You do both


The church you "claim" to belong to says it is the one true faith.


You say it is not


The church you "claim" to belong to says it has Prophets that are Gods mouth peice on earth,


You say you don't need them


The church you "claim" to belong to says baptism by proper authority is a necessity

You say it is not


Yea, no contradictions in your life Jaye



They are wholly mine, and mine alone.


They certainly are yours, you can have them.

Why thank you Kent...now if you would kindly concentrate your attention and your efforts upon your own shortcomings...it would be appreciated.

BTW...it's Mother's Day. What are you doing online?

Shouldn't you be giving your wife a break, and helping get the kiddies ready for Church... seeing that it's Mother's Day and she just got out of the hospital after her 'procedure'?