Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Boy that's all new stuff haven't heard before, LOL


You need to stop reading the anti verison big and uncle and Blogan, and read the real history.

OK Dubbs prove that the LDS Version is true and real, prove to us Dubbs that Joseph Smith knew how to read Egyptian hieroglyphics, and that everyone else who has read the papyruses are wrong

remember Dubbs even Mr. Thomas Stuart Furguson admitted Joseph Smith did not translate the papyruses but faked it, and Mr. Furguson is often recalled by latter-day saints as a stalwart defender of the faith who, among other things, established the New World Archaeological Foundation at BYU and he was once a general officer of BYU's Society for Early Historic Archaeology, he also wrote the popular LDS book One fold and one shepherd

so Dubbs do your best, Joseph Smith was a fraud... end of story....

The objective evidence is clear; that JS's translation was not even close to being accurate. No clear evidence supports that thesis that the documents are not the ones JS translated, despite the LDS church's fervent desire that they were not. I would be worried, too, if I were a LDS scholar.

Next?

Dubbs wrote:
bearyb wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betz wrote:
[b
So, when are you going to quit pounding on that "Jaye" piano key? 'Cause you've made a gargantuan deal about nothing for a few years now.

Am I annoying you? Then I guess my goal is done, I can stop now.
What kind of person would make it their goal to annoy someone?

Since Jaye, EricMiami, Wren and Big have all called you evil or sneaky mean in the past, I think you havce done a pretty good job yourself bud.
I'm sure I have annoyed some in the past and will probably annoy more in the future, but it is not my goal to do so. What kind of person would have such a goal?

bearyb wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
bearyb wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betz wrote:
[b
So, when are you going to quit pounding on that "Jaye" piano key? 'Cause you've made a gargantuan deal about nothing for a few years now.

Am I annoying you? Then I guess my goal is done, I can stop now.
What kind of person would make it their goal to annoy someone?

Since Jaye, EricMiami, Wren and Big have all called you evil or sneaky mean in the past, I think you havce done a pretty good job yourself bud.
I'm sure I have annoyed some in the past and will probably annoy more in the future, but it is not my goal to do so. What kind of person would have such a goal?

I was being facetious bud, relax.

Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
I want to state that Brigham Young's teachings concerning Blacks, in my opinion, was wrong. I do not know why the Priesthood was withheld. It has been restored, I sustain this. Any other statements that Brigham Young made concerning Blacks I consider not to be of God and I condemn them. That does not mean that I do not sustain him as a Prophet of God.

In the Bible...it is written that a man may be known by his words and his actions.

Jesus said..."Either make the tree good, and his fruit good, or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.

A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

So...is it possible that a man who has spoken such hateful and bigoted words regarding our black brothers and sisters can still be considered to be the mouthpiece of the Lord?

The Lord also said..."Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then I will profess unto them...I never knew you: depart from me, ye that worketh iniquity."

I'm sorry Thomas...I disagree with you on this point. For one thing...I don't believe that Brigham Young was chosen by God to lead the Church...although the perilous times called for a strong leader...and he was certainly a strong man...a strong willed man...and a man who brooked no argument.

I do not believe that God would select a man who's heart was filled with such hatred and bigotry for his black brothers and sisters.

Especially since Joseph Smith had already been ordaining worthy black men to the priesthood for some time before his death.

And if the founder of the faith, a man who was said to see God the Father, and the Son face to face...and said to receive the priesthood directly from Peter, James and John, had not been informed that the blacks were not worthy to receive the priesthood in their mortal life...I do not believe that God ever instructed Brigham Young to deny it to them.

For me...this places his status as prophet in doubt.

As does his teaching that Christ's Atonement was not sufficient to save sinners...and that their OWN blood must also be shed.

That contradicts everything that Jesus taught...and that the Christian faith believes.


So what are you saying Jaye, if Brigham Young wasn't chosen by God, does that not make every Prophet after him to be in direct line of Authority apostate also?

Not necessarily. It would have to depend upon how closely each man adhered to Christian principles...by their words, and their deeds.

This contradict's LDS doctine though Jay. As we believe the Prophet holds all the Keys as the Prophet, when he dies they are passed to the twelve, who choose a new Prophet, so if Brigham was not supposed to be a Godly chosen Prophet as you are saying, then he didn't hold the Keys, thus none of the other Prophets after him do. Just can't be if your claim is true. The church would not have proper authority, which is what I think you believe but won't say.

First off, being chosen as prophet of the Mormon Church is strictly on a basis of seniority and I don't believe it has ever been done otherwise except for Brigham Young, now if I'm incorrect in my assumption someone please correct me.

Can't you understand that Joseph Smith was clearly never a Prophet of God as evidence proves and never held any such authority or keys so he never had anything to pass onto any successor except a lie.

BY was the senior apostle of the Quorum of Twelve in 1844 and sustained as President in 1847. Every President since has been the senior apostle in the Twelve.

You can state that you don't believe JS was a prophet, blogan, but you can't state categorically that he wasn't because you can't prove it. However, you can and have certainly built a condemning case against JS as a prophet of God.


Blogan can't prove Christ lives either, nor can you, that he would use this lame arguement show's how illogical he is.


Reminds me of the perso who used to ask us to prove we are the one true church, when he can't prove his faith either. Mmmmm who was that?

It is obvious you never went to or did not graduate from college, because that is a false comparison.

You can't prove the LDS church is "the one true church" because the objective facts don't support it. And I never said my church (not my "faith", Dubbs, don't confuse terms -- that's another problem with your argumentation) was the one true church.

Who was the one who didn't get that? Hmmm. . . LVMIke who would not have anything to do with you, and other TBMs who lost that argument, including yourself.

It's obvious you are not a professor of anything. Does anyone here know Wren in real life? Anyone?

Of course I can't prove we are the one true church, if we could, the whole world would join. As is the case with any religious belief, whether trying to prove Christ lives, or we are the one true faith, it is a matter of faith.

Therefore my point is perfectly logical if you can understand the above paragraph. You never have been able to. Let's see if Blogan is any brighter than you.

Dubbs wrote:
Prove to me your verision is truth first, your claim, your burden of proof.

Here's my proof, let the spirit whisper truth to your spiritual ears.


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/contents


Mr. (doubting thomas) Ferguson made the same mistakes many people have made, that the anti's have parroted for years since, he believed the Papryus found in the Metro Musem were the ones Joseph translated from, they clearly were not. Even the very elect will be fooled in the last days. Mr. Ferguson was a lawyer by trade, not an archelogist, scholor, nor anything any Mormon looks to as a authority on what he spoke, any nut can write a book.

Oh come on Dubbs it has been proven that the papyruses found were the ones Joseph Smith had, Now yes they were only one third of the papyruses but yes the have the ones that became the book of abraham, Come on Dubbs read the whole book of "by his hand upon papyrus", even the church still has the copies they made from when Joseph was translating them, that they church printed in their own newspaper, that match perfectly with the ones found, So go ahead make up an excuse, but the truth is Joseph was a fraud at least as far as the papyruses are concerned,
because it has been proven, even church scholar's have admitted it going back as far as 1903

and as for Mr. Ferguson he established the New World Archaeological Foundation at BYU and he was once a general officer of BYU's Society for Early Historic Archaeology, he was a TBM until his death, he never left the church, and it is a shame the way you talk about him Dubbs, just because he told the truth, It is a shame you would degrade a good man for telling the truth so that you can believe a lie Dubbs...

Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Prove to me your verision is truth first, your claim, your burden of proof.

Here's my proof, let the spirit whisper truth to your spiritual ears.


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/contents


Mr. (doubting thomas) Ferguson made the same mistakes many people have made, that the anti's have parroted for years since, he believed the Papryus found in the Metro Musem were the ones Joseph translated from, they clearly were not. Even the very elect will be fooled in the last days. Mr. Ferguson was a lawyer by trade, not an archelogist, scholor, nor anything any Mormon looks to as a authority on what he spoke, any nut can write a book.

Oh come on Dubbs it has been proven that the papyruses found were the ones Joseph Smith had, Now yes they were only one third of the papyruses but yes the have the ones that became the book of abraham, Come on Dubbs read the whole book of "by his hand upon papyrus", even the church still has the copies they made from when Joseph was translating them, that they church printed in their own newspaper, that match perfectly with the ones found, So go ahead make up an excuse, but the truth is Joseph was a fraud at least as far as the papyruses are concerned,
because it has been proven, even church scholar's have admitted it going back as far as 1903

and as for Mr. Ferguson he established the New World Archaeological Foundation at BYU and he was once a general officer of BYU's Society for Early Historic Archaeology, he was a TBM until his death, he never left the church, and it is a shame the way you talk about him Dubbs, just because he told the truth, It is a shame you would degrade a good man for telling the truth so that you can believe a lie Dubbs...


You are confused on both accounts. First off, the anti's claim that Mr. Ferguson was a non believer at his death. Which is why you brought him up right? and even said he agrees the book of Abraham was a fraud, now your saying he was a TBM until the end? Make up your friggin mind and stop reading the anti sites, it's confusing you even more than you already would be.

Mr. Fergusons family disagree's with this and have said they remember him giving his testimony to them about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and the gospel a couple months before he died. In any event, he really is not anyone that has any affect on anyones testimony in any way, so really... Big whoop, he wrote a book, he was a director at BYU, big deal. Not sure why you even bring him up if he was still a believer as you say, why bring him up?


As far as the papyrus, They were described as being able to fill a whole room when "rolled out" Do you think we can roll out these?


Get real bigdummy, start reading something besides the anti sites.