Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS (1 viewing) (1) Guests
Favoured: 1
|
|
|
TOPIC: Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS
|
Jaye (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 13746
|
|
Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS 8 Months ago
|
Karma: 10
|
KitKat wrote:Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
BLogan wrote:
When it comes to salvation, ("eternal life with God" now is the time to either accept Jesus Christ, or reject him but once you've drawn your last breath here on Earth it's too late regardless of LDS belief. baptism for the deadis a waste of time.
Just curious.... In your opinion, what happens to those who died never hearing of Jesus Christ?
You gonna answer this Blogan? (doubt it)
Dubs, either be nice when you butt in on my conversations, or butt out.
Then be nice to me.
After you, dubby.
By the way, by recently baptized granddaugher is reading this. She wanted to say something to you. Here she is:
i dont believe you used to be a bishop. by the way you are very very weird
And that is from the mouth of babes, dubs.Bless the child. Sometimes the greatest of wisdom comes from those who have no concept of wile or device. Give her a hug from the Wolf and I...will you dear lady?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
|
|
|
The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Dubbs (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 9510
|
|
Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS 8 Months ago
|
Karma: -513
|
Jaye wrote:Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Don't beleive me then on Baptism for the dead, believe the references to non LDS scholars.
as far as the Priesthood, as I said, no other Christian faith I know of even claims to have the Priesthood, much less understand what it is and what they do with it. Christ gave the priesthood to his 12 apostles. As he always wanted it to be.
Really? Thats as He always wanted it to be? Only 12 to hold the priesthood at any given time?
Then that would tend to put the lie to the LDS practice of ordaining LDS males to the priesthood when they reach 12 years of age.
If this was as Jesus always wanted it to be...then every last worthy member of the LDS Church might as well kiss their priesthood authority nighty-night...except of course for the Quorum of the Twelve.
Don't play the idiot Jaye, although you do it well. Christ instituted the 12 apostles, and gave them the Preisthood. You know this, (at least I think you do  ) He never said it would change, it hasn't.
I beg to differ Kent. The fact that you stated that Christ gave the priesthood to 12 men...12 Apostles, as He always wanted it to be...and the fact that the LDS Church ordains EVERY worthy LDS boy to the priesthood when he reaches 12 years of age...puts the lie to your comment.
And since you claim that Jesus never said that this would never change...and it hasn't...you are either a downright liar, and prevaricator...or you are simply uninformed.
Play the idiot all you want, I think it was clear by my designation of "12" apostles, I was speaking of them having the priesthood. For the non senile, I think it was clear.
What has been crystal clear, for nigh on every participant of this forum...is that your opinion bears less weight than a toad's fart.
Within the 4 gospels...Jesus gave priesthood authority to His chosen 12 Apostles.
Nothing is mentioned regarding the Lord teaching that this priesthood should be given to worthy males from the age of 12 and up.
He only gave this gift to 12 individuals. When did this change?
Jaye, answer this, do you believe we have every thing or word Jesus ever said and did in the Bible?
No Kent...I don't. I believe that what we have is every word and deed that a number of His followers heard him say, or saw him do, or heard about him saying or doing... and remembered to relate.
The gospel of Luke and Mark are based upon hearsay evidence which these two men heard about Jesus from other men.
And in the case of Luke...his account contains rather important stories that were not included in the accounts of the two who actually walked and talked with Jesus during His life and ministry.
But there were other disciples who's words regarding the life and ministry of Jesus Christ were disregarded and left out of the Holy Bible.
There in lies the rub you don't get cliffy, We dont' have the whole organization nor list of all who recieved the priesthood, how, where, or why. So for you to question where this happened, then admit we don't have all that happened, shows your logically not thinking.
Your grammar sucks...figuratively speaking. Until you address your errors, and work on the manner in which you think, and communicate...you have no room to accuse anyone else of 'logically not thinking'...or did you mean to say...'lack of logical thinking'?
Let me re-phrase. You admit we don't have all of Christ's nor the apostles deeds and words in scripture.
But then ask the question
"Nothing is mentioned regarding the Lord teaching that this priesthood should be given to worthy males from the age of 12 and up."
See the contradiction cliffy? You admit on one hand we don't know all Christ did, on the other you question that "nothing is mentioned"
Is it possible it was and was taken out as part of the "plain and precious parts" that were removed from the Bible? Or do you not believe this scripture either?
That is an unacceptable argument, period. It allows anyone anytime to decide what is acceptable or not with the remark, "well, it must have been one of the 'plain and precious parts' removed long ago from the Bible." Simply unacceptable.
Yet, that is what has caused the confusion to begin with, the Bible.
You can't even be logical enough to agree that we don't have all that Jesus and the apostles said and did in their life in the Bible?
Hey gumball, if we don't have it, how do you know it was necessary?
If we don't have it? Huh, WE do have it, that's the point dar dar.
If you have it...it should be relatively easy to PROVE it.
Huh? Do you claim to have it? Can you prove it?
No...and that's why I do not profess that the LDS Church is the one true Church, nor the only path to salvation.So now you don't profess to have the priesthood anymore?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Jaye (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 13746
|
|
Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS 8 Months ago
|
Karma: 10
|
Dubbs wrote:More proof
http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/Mormons.html
"The Mormons deny the Trinity and the existence of a literal burning Hell, yet they promote polytheism (many gods), baptism for the dead, and the notion that Jesus and Satan were originally spirit brothers! Friend, make no mistake about it--Mormonism is a dangerous cult. In the eyes of man, the Mormons seem very respectable, but the light of God's word reveals the true wolves..."
http://www.afcministry.com/Are_Mormons_Christians.htm
Why Mormons are not Christians
This took me all of two minutes, could find more, but we now have four examples, I'd say that will suffice.Well good for you Kent...perhaps then you will consider calling it a day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
|
|
|
The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Dubbs (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 9510
|
|
Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS 8 Months ago
|
Karma: -513
|
KitKat wrote:Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
BLogan wrote:
When it comes to salvation, ("eternal life with God" now is the time to either accept Jesus Christ, or reject him but once you've drawn your last breath here on Earth it's too late regardless of LDS belief. baptism for the deadis a waste of time.
Just curious.... In your opinion, what happens to those who died never hearing of Jesus Christ?
You gonna answer this Blogan? (doubt it)
Dubs, either be nice when you butt in on my conversations, or butt out.
Then be nice to me.
After you, dubby.
By the way, by recently baptized granddaugher is reading this. She wanted to say something to you. Here she is:
i dont believe you used to be a bishop. by the way you are very very weird
And that is from the mouth of babes, dubs. Give her a big kiss for me Kitkat, tell her I'm a nice guy in real life, she'd like me. Tell her not to judge people online. It's not the real them at times.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Dubbs (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 9510
|
|
Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS 8 Months ago
|
Karma: -513
|
Jaye wrote:Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BLogan wrote:
dubbs, in regard to your always claiming that Christian pastors bash Mormons, are you claiming that this goes on during Sunday services?
Where do you get this idea? Have you ever attended any other Christian denominations services where this went on while you were there?
Or are you just guilty of strictly parroting some hateful rumor that you possibly heard during Sunday services or possibly General conference of the LDS church?
Can you provide any evidence of Christian ministers preaching these hateful statements against Mormons from the pulpit?
Now I can produce evidence of Mormon prophets and general authorities bashing Christians from the pulpit,should we look at this evidence?
Through out my life I have had many Christians ask me about my beliefs because of something their preacher said in church, bashing us, they wanted the truth from the horses mouth, and got it.
On my mission we attended many Christian faiths services, where we got an ear full from bible thumping nut jobs who would scream and yell at us and say were burning in hell in front of the whole congregation.
Wren has mentioned a "mormon men miltia" in his church to combat those evil mormons, so I'm sure they talk about it quite often. The deeper into the south you go, into the Bible belt, the worse it gets, course you've never been out of Utah have you Blogan?
BLogan was talking about credible, verifiable and documented evidence...not hearsay or your personal anecdotes.
Wren's telling commments about are proof, as were Thomask's mentioning of Uncle Bucks website he posted from a evangalist church that called us a cult among other things.
That proof enough for you?
I don't really care what anyone thinks of my beliefs.
They are welcome to think that the LDS Church is a cult. I know better.
What BLogan was talking about...was credible, verifiable and documented evidence of Christian ministers bashing the LDS faith...not personal anecdotes.Well if evangical websites are bashing it online, I'd say that's proof.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Dubbs (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 9510
|
|
Re:VATICAN KEEPS PARISH RECORDS FROM MORMONS 8 Months ago
|
Karma: -513
|
Jaye wrote:Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
[
The LDS Church believes that it is wrong to repeat this ordinance...except in the case of excommunication and re-baptism.
Huh? What does this have to do with this conversation ?
The fact that many of these people have already been baptized...into their OWN faith.
And just as the LDS Church holds that it is disrespectful to the Lord to hold an exchange of vows after a temple marriage for the benefit of those relatives and friends cannot attend...it is also disrespectful for the LDS Church to set at naught any baptism which has already been performed for these people.
Uh... Jaye, you understand we believe it has to be done with the proper priesthood authority right?
The church in no way says that " it is wrong to repeat this ordinance" On the contrary, they believe it is absolutly necessary. Wow, again, sometimes I really wonder if you really are LDS.
1. I have been LDS longer than you've been alive.
2. It is your opinion...and the opinion of the LDS Church that the LDS Church is the only Church with the proper priesthood authority. And neither your opinion...nor the opinion of the LDS Church, or anyone in the LDS Church...is binding on anyone else.
I have my reservations on the matter.
3. Let's talk about this theory of proper priesthood authority.
After Jesus ordained His Disciples with the 'proper authority' to heal the sick, and cast out devils...they came to Him with a complaint.
It seems that when they tried to cast out devils...they failed. They could not understand why.
He explained that it was due to their own lack of faith in themselves.
Not long after this occurred...it seems that a certain individual, who was not one of their group of followers, was casting out devils in Christ's name.
The Disciples were irate. And they came to Jesus, telling Him that they had forbidden this fellow from doing these things...because he wasn't a part of their group.
What did Jesus say? 'Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in My name, that can lightly speak evil of Me. For he that is not against us is for us on his part.'
4. Just as the LDS Church believes that it is disrespectful to have any sort of a civil ceremony for the benefit of non-member relatives and friends after being married and sealed in the temple...I believe it is also disrespectful to repeat baptism for those who have already been baptized in their own faith.
Especially in the case of those who have died and cannot give or refuse consent.
As I knew you did have reservations about proper priesthood authority being necssary.
It does negate your claim that church has said "it is wrong to repeat this ordinance"
The church in no way said this, you are wrong.
The apostle Paul repeated baptisms done without proper authority, as he understood its importance.
The Apostle Paul also taught a great many things which did not correspond to what Jesus taught...and he hated women to boot.
And...he also believed that works were not necessary...but faith alone.
Are you now advocating Paul as a prime example of knowledge where it comes to the gospel?
Paul understood authority, and the need of authority, as does the LDS church, the one you claim to be a member of.
Paul had also spent the greater portion of his life persecuting, arresting, torturing and bringing about the death of Christians.
So I guess the question is...who are you going to trust?
The words of Jesus Christ? Or the words of one of the greatest enemies the Christian faith ever had?
Christ also taught the need for authority Jaye. In the Book of Mormon and Bible. So much for your poo poo'ing authority.
I will repeat this tale from the New Testament.
After Jesus gave 'authority' to His disciples to heal the sick and cast out devils, and sent them out into the land...they returned with tales of woe about how they had not been able to heal the sick and cast out devils.
Jesus explained that it was due to the fact that they lacked the faith in themselves that was necessary to achieve these 'miracles'.
Not long after this occurred, His disciples came to him complaining of a man, who was not one of their number, who was healing the sick and casting out devils in the name of Jesus Christ.
They explained that they had forbidden him to do so.
And Jesus said...'Forbid him not...for no man can do miracles lightly in My name. If he is on our part...he cannot be against us'.
So...where did this lone stranger get his authority? Jesus hadn't given it to him. He was not among the followers of Jesus. Yet he healed the sick, and cast out devils successfully in the name of the Lord.Could not your little favorite story to poo poo authority and the need for it be an example that maybe Christ gave the priesthood to others, and we don't have record of it? DOH! What about Christ proclaiming the need for authority and priesthood in the Book of Mormon Jaye? Do you throw that out also? Or was that more of Joesph's words he added?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The administrator has disabled public write access. |
|
|
|
|
Generated in 0.82204 Seconds |
