Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
The standard argument of the critics is that Joseph produced the Book of Abraham from a few characters on the Sensen scroll...To call the Book of Abraham a translation of the few glyphs in the margins hardly makes sense... If Joseph had indeed claimed to be translating entire paragraphs of complex English text from single Egyptian characters ("shorthand" hieratic script, not elaborate glyphs), his associates who worked with him during the days of translation should have been suspicious. One of the scribes assisting in the work, Warren Parrish, did later turn against Joseph and the Church. But mantioned nothing of it.

Provide the source for the material above, Dubbs. It means nothing if you don't.

Tell bigdummy to provide all of his first, then I'll think about it. It still won't mean a thing to you, because you won't read the LDS side anyway, you'll just parrot the anti nut jobs material.


"LOL" Dubbs read my last post it came from a LDS/BYU site "LOL"


Yes, very good, as it should be, if your going to learn any truth, look at all sides. Very good dumbby.

Now continue on and read more, you learn alot, maybe then you won't make claims as you made in your orginal post that Joseph "wrote a book" and it was "accidently leaked" to the public as you orginally said.

Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
The standard argument of the critics is that Joseph produced the Book of Abraham from a few characters on the Sensen scroll...To call the Book of Abraham a translation of the few glyphs in the margins hardly makes sense... If Joseph had indeed claimed to be translating entire paragraphs of complex English text from single Egyptian characters ("shorthand" hieratic script, not elaborate glyphs), his associates who worked with him during the days of translation should have been suspicious. One of the scribes assisting in the work, Warren Parrish, did later turn against Joseph and the Church. But mantioned nothing of it.

Provide the source for the material above, Dubbs. It means nothing if you don't.

Tell bigdummy to provide all of his first, then I'll think about it. It still won't mean a thing to you, because you won't read the LDS side anyway, you'll just parrot the anti nut jobs material.


"LOL" Dubbs read my last post it came from a LDS/BYU site "LOL"


Yes, very good, as it should be, if your going to learn any truth, look at all sides. Very good dumbby.

Now continue on and read more, you learn alot, maybe then you won't make claims as you made in your orginal post that Joseph "wrote a book" and it was "accidently leaked" to the public as you orginally said.

OH so now you are admitting or saying that Joseph Smith didn't write the Book of Mormon too Dubbs!!!

remember he had the same people write that for him too..!!

I never said they were accidently leaked Dubbs, don't lie and deceive, show me where I said they were accidently leaked

I just said they were leaked to the public and that is it...and they were leaked to the public because Jerald and Sandra Tanner, well-known critics of the LDS church, obtained a microfilm copy of them....

Also Dubbs read this:

most of Egyptian Manuscript # 4 is in Joseph Smith's handwriting. In particular, page V, which contains the two hieratic characters. This is one more proof of the link between the "Alphabet and Grammar" and "The Book of Abraham." Has any Mormon apologist attempted to refute this connection? In this case, they can't state that "The Scribes Did It", because it was written by Joseph Smith.
http://www.lds-mormon.com/scribesdidittheory.shtml

Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
[b2. JS said he could translate them because he was a Prophet, seer and revelator.... Joseph also made a document or book he called "Grammar & Alphabet of the Egyptian Language" but in 1966 when this book was leaked out to the public, it in no way substantiated JS's ability to translate ancient Egyptian, it did quite the opposite because the book turned out to be nothing but page after page of nonsensical gibberish, it may have impressed unsophisticated people of the past but it was unable to withstand the scrutiny of experts of today....

This part is not true.

"Really".. ?? Show us how you know this..!!!

Your claim, your burden of proof, but the book you are speaking of was not written in Joseph handwriting, it is the Kirtland papers, you need to do some due diligence big dumbass and read about it all before posting your BS from anti sites.

Here Dubbs let me show you how wrong you are "LOL"
read this from Hugh W. Nibley from a LDS/BYU site...

The Kirtland Egyptian Papers are written in the handwriting of six men: W. W. Phelps, Frederick G. Williams, Warren Parrish, Oliver Cowdery, Willard Richards, and Joseph Smith.


http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/display.php?table=transcripts&id=121

and there is this:

"Joseph Smith's Translation of Abraham's Alphabet and Grammar."1 Small wonder that the parties who since 1966 have diligently exploited this document as a weapon against the Prophet have been only too happy to accept without further discussion and on the authority of the Mormons themselves the quite untested and untenable propositions (a) that Joseph Smith actually wrote the thing, and (b) that he also translated that other text (the first chapter and part of the second chapter of the Book of Abraham) from the Egyptian symbols that accompany it.

well Dubbs I fulfilled my burden of proof from your own LDS/BYU site

Now where is your proof buddy boy..???

Very good bigdummy, You are learning that Joseph didn't write the book as was your first claim, Joseph wrote 2 of the hundreds of pages, hardly a book written by him as was your first claim. Also, your quote above is incomplete, not very honest, finish the quote and learn more dumby.

Now read the rest of the article to find out what the KEP is, as it is not what you claimed it was. Your learning bigdummy, if we could just get you to comprehend faster and better now.

You've lost this discussion because of your assertion without sources for your evidence, Dubbs.

You are just baying at the moon now, doggie.

Just Reading wrote:
Also Dubbs read this:

most of Egyptian Manuscript # 4 is in Joseph Smith's handwriting. In particular, page V, which contains the two hieratic characters. This is one more proof of the link between the "Alphabet and Grammar" and "The Book of Abraham." Has any Mormon apologist attempted to refute this connection? In this case, they can't state that "The Scribes Did It", because it was written by Joseph Smith.
http://www.lds-mormon.com/scribesdidittheory.shtml

No, Dubbs won't post his source for us to check because he knows that it won't hold up.

This is number 11 for the list of topics that he has lost recently.

Just Reading wrote:
[
I never said they were accidently leaked Dubbs, don't lie and deceive, show me where I said they were accidently leaked

I just said they were leaked to the public and that is it...and they were leaked to the public because Jerald and Sandra Tanner, well-known critics of the LDS church, obtained a microfilm copy of them....

You said they were leaked, they were not, they were released by the church. You said Joseph "wrote a book" which is not true. It was written mostly by other people, Joseph wrote one section. You had no clue about what the KEP were before I educated you.