Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker (1 viewing) (1) Guests
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TOPIC: Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago
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Karma: -43
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Dubbs wrote:Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
BBBB wrote:
[iNow, I give the issues I complained and (what year I filed the complaint)
(1) The power abuse of a stake president to mis-use a Church Court (June 2005 – June 2007). My Stake President was alleged to lie to me in the process of handling this case, in order to dismiss the case. I pushed up to Area President (AP) and the GA.
Was this your case or someone elses? If yours why would you be upset he was trying to dismiss it? If someone elses, then it's none of your business to begin with.
(2) A disrespecting Ward Meeting policy regarding food and silence and orders, to discriminate some families with special children (July 2007). This came from some parents disrespecting the bishop, who issued the policy despite the objection of his bishopric. Since the bishopric is my family friends, I successfully overthrew the policy. This one stayed in the Ward level only.
"you" successfully overthrew the policy? More like the Bishop took heed of those around him's advice, and decided on his own to reverse it. You seem to have a need to get involved and take credit for everything.
(3) As a marital counselor, I pushed to open LDS Social Service here (March 2006). It was my personal needs, in terms of me seeing many childhood friends in Church getting divorce. I could not imagine it happened in their families, because they are good guys and good gals. Bishops need professionals to help, and the concerned members and children in the concerned families need religious help as well as professional help. If we send them out to outside non-religious counseling agencies or the outside Christian agencies for counseling service, they would not receive service with Mormon context. I pushed up to the Area Office/AP, the GA and the headquarter of LDS Social Service. This one was not a complaint, but just a request/a brief proposal. Of course, there were some heated debates or discussion (like here in posting). I did not say anything that they were wrong. In fact, they are not wrong in any way. Of course, I failed in this course.
You should have just let it go through the Proper channels, IE, Bishop, Stake President, Area authority, You are abusing the proper line of prieshood leadership.
The following story triggered me my indifference to the Church. In 2007, I was for first time in a conference with many Mormon psychological therapists. The hosts of the Conference were very warm and introduced me to some persons (because the hosts were nice persons, and they did not want to forget a small potato from a brand-new country without any of their members.) They introduced me to a gentleman, whom they called International-Guy. When the International-Guy heard my name and my country, he just gave a cold shoulder, and said he had already received my emails. I did not know what was going on, so just exchanged name cards with each other under the instructions of the hosts. One of the hosts brought me to his table, and gave me a good hospitality (because he did not want me to feel hurt). His hospitality was so good that his past student, a Ph D candidate, on the same table thought that I was a big potato coming from a big country, and tried to befriend with me. I was grateful for the hosts, who are members. I was sad and then became indifferent to the International-Guy, who is also a member, whom I found from the name card to be an assistant head of the LDS Social Service headquarter in Salt Lake City. Why did a good nature of counseling profession and a good nature of Gospel not refine a person who is supposed to be soaked in these two fields?
So you wrote a letter to someone because of an assumed rude behavior of a member? 
(4) I proposed to Public Affairs to relate Counseling Service as a community service to my country. This would help the Church image here (June 2004 to June 2005). This was the first part of the above number (3), which appeared to upset the concerned Church staff already in Area Office.
Should be done in proper line of authority, would help your reputation, and not marginalize your many complaints.
(5) A mistake to purchase a small piece of land to build a chapel, where a public pavement has to cut across the land into 2 halves (June 2005). The Ward members have to suffer, unless they give up the land. No normal persons love to buy such a piece of land. I did not care about wasting money, but my concerns were the members using the odd piece of land. I pushed up to the Presiding Bishop and the GA, because it is a mistake of the Area Office/AP, who did not disclose their mistake to the Ward members, but just asked the Ward members to fast and pray for eliminating the problem of the land. (The bishopric and the stake presidency to reveal this problem. Otherwise, no one knows the mistake of AO.)
Are we not asked to help build the kingdom of God? With our time, talents, and everything? How is having a chapel going to hurt the members?
(6) Pushing for Service Missionary and Service volunteers by Area Office (June 2005). Stake Presidency followed to push for it. Bishops objected, and finally aborted. Members were alleged to be lazy and be blamed. I reflected to the GA the pitfalls of such projects, in terms of no liability insurance for volunteers, no concerns and care for volunteers and their energy and time in combination of Sunday meetings, seminary/institute, work/school, family/quorum projects, temple work and genealogy work, long-travelling expenses, etc. I complained to ask the GA to check if the members were exploited. We live in an Area where life is not as relaxed as that in USA.
Again abusing the line of authority, if leaders above you don't feel something is necessary, either pray and wait for further light and knowledge, or take it they also prayed and ask for guidance. To go "over their head" to a GA, makes you look like a complainer, and also shows you are not following the proper line of authority.
To go "over their head" to a GA, makes you look like a complainer, and also shows you are not following the proper line of authority
Percy are talking about the LDS Church or, the military?
GA is a general Authority in this sitting apostate, or are you too far gone from Church membership to even remember what the abrievation for General Authority is? I was referring to the "line of authority" Percy.
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Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
Albert Einstein
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.
Mailer, Norman Kingsley
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Jaye (User)
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago
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Karma: 9
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Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
[b]
Brother Kent...I am well aware of what that scripture means..
No, you weren't, you said this....
4. Live and let live falls more along the lines of 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'...or the Golden Rule, as Christ's teaching was derived from.
This is not accurate, it is warning those who think it's ok to sin a little here and there, and God will be ok with it.
You are incorrect...but that's nothing new.
Live and let live falls along the lines of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.
It also falls under the category of concentrating on living your own life as YOU see fit...and allowing others to live THEIR own life as THEY see fit.
A concept you have difficulty grasping.
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Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
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KitKat (User)
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago
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Karma: 53
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Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
JLD wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Yes...it is possible that you could be wrong JLD. I don't remember ever promising not to take my shirt off while posing for a picture.
And I do, on occasion, take my shirt off if it gets hot enough on a parking lot we're paving or sealing.
That's why I don't wear the G's to work. And that's probably why LDS pro-athletes don't wear the G's to work.
Time and place for everything I suppose.
Which brings us to these young Mormon men who posed for the calender.
If they are still currently serving missions...so long as they don't go door to door preaching the gospel without a shirt...who really cares?
I suppose that there are those in the LDS faith who are letter of the law types who even wear their G's while they're having intercourse.
But I've never been a letter of the law kind of guy myself.
Have you?
Depends. If I make a covenant or a promise or a commitment I do my best to keep it. Again, I don't wear garments and haven't been through the temple. My parents have. They almost never remove the garments, it is their belief that they shouldn't be removed unless absolutely necessary. Obviously, there are times that can remove them...I don't think posing in those pictures is one of them. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.
Do your parents swim or sunbathe?
Oh brother, you are so dense sometimes, you seriously don't understand that their are excpetions, and you think this calender falls in an exception? Wow, amazing.
I would say that if these young men were paid to model for the calender, it would fall under the EXCEPTIONS granted for certain careers.
Just as if an LDS woman was a professional model, and required to model underwear, lounge wear, or bikinis.
We've been over this a few times Kent. Just as you argued that Marie Osmond's choices of less than modest dresses for 'Dancing With the Stars' would fall under the demands of her career, or it was allowable for an LDS athlete to wear shorts and a tank top during participation in his sport.
And just as, at times when the heat turns up out on the parking lots, my crew and I sometime shed our shirts for comfort.
And before you leap to decry my sinful behavior in 'breaking my covenant to always wear my garments'...my Bishop and Stake President are well aware of this fact.
The fact that you can't see the difference between going swimming and these young men in photos, is telling.
The fact that you argued that Marie is wrong to do what she did with her garments, but now we find out that you don't even wear garments all day long while working, is also just another example of the hypocrite that you are.
By the way, couldn't you wear your garments, then take off your shirt while working, then replace the shirt and garment when able? I've worked in the sun and had jobs outside, and have done this many times, but to just not wear them all day long to me is not following the Bishops handbook, but that is for you to decide, but just shows your level of commitment to me.
What's very telling to me is that you supported Marie in removing her garments, but you're saying these young missionaries were wrong. Same diff!! Or did you just like the view of Marie better? Pervert.
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Last Edit: 2008/07/20 13:27 By KitKat.
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A naughty and piquant wench...and a wicked witch
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Jaye (User)
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago
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Karma: 9
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Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubss said..."I think you have an odd obession with thinking people are money minded, maybe there just like you and just are trying there best, and your judging them harshly?"
Interesting. You have been obsessed with John's financial circumstances for quite a while. Maybe he's just like you, and he's trying his best, and you're judging HIM harshly.
Or with BBBB...you have been making quite a few remarks about his communication skills, and his grasp of English.
Perhaps he's just like you Dubss. He's a man, just like you. He has his likes and his dislikes, just like you. He is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, just like you.
The only difference I see is that BBBB is not star-struck, as you are, and he is capable of seeing that in HIS neck of the woods, the Church is not living up to their responsibilities to the membership.
This is where similarity ends. You look at the Church, and you can see no wrongdoing...no errors...no mistakes in judgment or in administration.
You are a wealthy man. You claim to own several homes, and be a very young semi-retired man.
You live in a very wealthy Ward. Why WOULD you understand what BBBB is trying to convey? You have no basis for comparison.
BBBB, on the other hand, might not be so wealthy. His fellow members might not be so wealthy. It is possible that he lives in a relatively impoverished area.
It is also possible that the men who have amassed enough wealth to enable them to spend the time and effort as leaders in the faith are not doing their best to care for those who are less fortunate than they are.
My Stake is very diverse. We have people who own waterfront estates on the lakes, or on the Puget Sound...and, being a military zone, we have people living in impoverished circumstances in Section 8 housing.
We are fortunate to have some very decent men administering our Stake. They honor their calling, and take their responsibilities very seriously.
It has not always been like this though. And within the membership, even though our leaders are decent and humble men, we do have a number of members who are very lifted up in the pride of their financial circumstances.
Much as you are.
Dubss said...'Be best to try to talk with them in a one on one setting, and not bad mouth them behind their back.'
To which I reply...Now look who's talking about following the conversation.
This is exactly what BBBB has done. He started off by taking it to his ward leaders, then went to his Stake leaders, and so on and so forth.
He has not received answers to his questions, or his concerns.
You voiced doubt that he received an email from the Secretary of the Twelve telling him to quiet down.
I do not doubt it at all.
After all...the Secretary to the First Presidency took it upon himself to contact the President of the Tabernacle Choir and the LDS Orchestra and opine that they might have an enemy in their midst...(Peter Danzig).
And if a member gets too vocal in his criticism, or his questions...they WILL be contacted by the Church leadership, and told to quiet down.
blah blah hypocrite, blah blah whiner.
You have only proven that when you have nothing to add to the discussion...you resort to name calling and derision.
Address my comment like an adult or go sit in a corner.
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Last Edit: 2008/07/20 13:23 By Jaye.
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Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago
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Karma: -43
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Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
Albert Einstein
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.
Mailer, Norman Kingsley
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Jaye (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 13652
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 3 Weeks ago
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Karma: 9
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Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Are you going to try to claim that you and your wife have NEVER watched an R rated movie?
When we were married we promised each other we would follow the PRophets council, do you know the Prophets council in this regard Jaye?
Jaye said ..."rated are movies are porn anyways"
Yes, that's why we are counciled not to view the filth that is coming out more and more in the last days, you obviously don't follow this advice.
If you are going to quote my words...at least quote them accurately.
I seriously doubt that you have avoided R rated movies.
Especially in that you have not followed the Prophet's counsel in many other issues.
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Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
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