Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker (1 viewing) (1) Guests
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TOPIC: Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Dubbs wrote:Jaye wrote:
Kent...you have not yet addressed the FACT that the phrase...'getting into bed with' is usually a derogatory phrase.
'Getting into bed with the mob'...'getting into bed with the Syndicate'...'getting into bed with terrorists'...or in a political meaning...'getting into bed with special interest groups'.
It is NOT a complimentary terminology.
So if your say to your kids, time for Bed, go get in bed kids, it's derogatory?
Always? No excpetions?
 you are delusional.This obsession of yours with how people get into their beds. Well it's really creepy if you ask me. 
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Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
Albert Einstein
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.
Mailer, Norman Kingsley
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Dubbs (User)
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Jaye wrote:[b]
According to what God told Nephi...it would take BOTH the writings of the Bible AND the book of Mormon in order to grow together.
So wouldn't that be equal? DOH!
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Dubbs (User)
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: -512
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Wren wrote:Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
The BoM is equal only in your mind, Dubbs. You are not going to find any church publication that says otherwise.
If it is the keystone to our religion, I'd say it's pretty equal. 
Even the Book of Mormon itself says it "shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace" (2 Nephi 3:12)
Pretty equal in my mind if it clears up contentions the Bible has caused.
The Church does not agree with you or you would have given us such documentation.
You are entitled to your opinion, but it is not binding on anyone else at all.Let me guess, you don't have a reference to prove your point, except how they list it? 
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: -43
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Dubbs wrote:Jaye wrote:
The commandments and expectations of Jesus Christ for His followers are the same today, yesterday, and forever.
True, I agree, but he doens't require us to sell everything we have and preach the gospel as he had some do in his days now does he?
Another example of things changing due to Christ's admonishments, just as happens to today, things change through revelation, thanks for the great example jaye of continuing revelation.Thank you Percy for the great example. Of the workings of the delusional mind.
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Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
Albert Einstein
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.
Mailer, Norman Kingsley
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
Dubbs (User)
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Posts: 9443
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: -512
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Jaye wrote:Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?
He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen!
Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?
So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?
Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right
That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.
Go grow up, Dubbs.
There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.
Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.
Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?
You're such an arrogant little SOB.
No, not what I'm saying.
what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.
Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.
Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?
Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.
Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.
KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.
This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.
Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.
The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.
I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.
That is the LDS view on it.
Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"
Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.
Joseph Smith's mother educated her sons using the Holy Bible as a primer. It was a great part of his emotional and psychological upbringing, contained most of his spiritual education, and the Book of Mormon borrows heavily at times from verses from the Holy Bible.
Don't forget...the Nephites originated in the Holy land. The knowledge, laws, and teachings of the Old Testament was their basic ancestry, and the core of their heritage.
The Bible comes first. Not only does it contain a record and genealogy of the people of the covenant,the House of Israel, it contains record of God's will and His laws for these people.
The very will, and the very laws that Lehi and his family carried with them from the Holy land.
The Old Testament also contains numerous prophesies regarding the coming of a promised Messiah, who would free Israel from the bonds of slavery, and oppression.
The New Testament contains record, within the Four Gospels, of Christ's birth, ministry, death, and resurrection.
The Bible is the primary testament to Jesus Christ.
And the Book of Mormon, is the secondary testament to Jesus Christ.
Or...as it is stated on the first page of the Book of Mormon...'ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST'.
It does not say, nor is it meant to be considered to be a replacement for the Bible, nor to draw attention from the Bible, nor to gainsay the Bible.
Once again...you have GROSSLY misinterpreted and misrepresented my words and my beliefs.
But that is only par for the course with you.
From my understanding and readings, they are equal, one is not above the other.
Although the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion. And, the Book of Mormon is "Another" testement, that does not interpret to "secondary" in anyone's mind but yours.
I disagree. Christ is the cornerstone of the Church.
I mispoke, it is the keystone, not cornerstone.
Scripturally, they are equal in my mind.
Interesting. You consider the Book of Mormon to be of equal importance with Jesus Christ Himself?Scriptually, the Bible and Book of Mormon and D&C are equal is what was meant. I'm sure others got it.
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: -43
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Dubbs wrote:Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Now, what kind of accommodations did Jesus live in? Or are you still unable to answer?
Actually, I'm curious the logic you are trying to follow here. So I will bite.
Jesus lived as far as we know in wilderness, in peoples homes, and in adobe or clay huts.
So? And? Therefore what?
In other words, he lived off the goodness and kindness of other people. Just like the LDS clergy and all other religions clergy. There is nothing wrong with it as long as the clergymen don't take advantage of the situation.
Was that so difficult? Did you think you were being set up or something? See, answering questions isn't always a bad thing.
Apostate johns (and Jayes) response was different, he was trying to say that Rich people can't go to heaven, and it's wrong that the Prophets get paid. They used the condo as their example of riches being paid to the Prophets.
I'm sorry... your repsonse is logical and I jumped to the conclusion in your case.
Where did the discussions about paid clergy and rich people not getting into heaven get turned into the same discussion. I must have missed that . . .
Apostate John asked the question, I asked back are you saying rich people can't be christian and go to heaven, he then quoted the scripture that talks about it being hard for rich people to go to heaven.
It all started with Jaye's posting of how much the Prophets get paid and where they get to live.
Which prompted Apostates question about where Jesus lived. He's trying to say the Prophet shouldn't live in a 1.2 mill condo.
I think a 1.2 mil condo is a bit excessive . . . I mean, you bring up the televangelists - I would wager you don't much care for the extravagant way they live - and before you go get yourself into a froth, I'm not saying the LDS hierarchy live extravagantly, but I think about how that 1.2 mil condo comes across to the every day joeblow that works his butt off to keep his own family clothed, fed, and sheltered - as well as pay a full tithe. I mean, let's be realistic, here. I don't expect my pastor to live in abject poverty, but if he lived in a home that was well beyond the means of most of the members of the church, I'd start doing some heavy duty questioning.
I think that value get's blown out of proportion, first, it's not an extravgent condo, it's just in a good area that has high value, and the value hasn't always been that high, I mean the church owned the property, built a condo complex for church use and to rent to others, and it just so happened the value shot up.
But to use that as some "extravegent lifestyle" that there living is a joke, these men are humble, simple men who were mostly succesful business men before they got called. Money does not make one evil, the love of money over God makes one evil, Jaye and Apostate don't get this and misunderstand the scripture.
Dubss said..."these men are humble, simple men who were mostly succesful business men before they got called."
While working as a surveyor for the railroad for a short time as a young man, Smith's eyesight was permanently impaired by glare from the sun. After 1903, Smith found his frequent travels debilitating, and began to show prominent symptoms of physical weakness. He was eventually diagnosed with lupus erythematosus, a chronic debilitating autoimmune disease.
He worked for the Church for the rest of his life. Not exactly a successful business career.
David O.McKay graduated from the University of Utah in 1897 as valedictorian and class president. Immediately afterward he was called on a mission to Great Britain. Like his father, he presided over the Scottish district of the church.
Upon his return in fall 1899, McKay taught at the high school level LDS Weber stake academy and became principal in 1902. He married Emma Ray Riggs in the Salt Lake Temple on January 2, 1901. McKay planned on a career in education and educational administration until called to a full time church position in 1906.
So he basically worked for the Church most of his life.
Harold B Lee held his first teaching position in the fall of 1916. He taught a class of 25 students, grades one to eight, in Weston, Idaho. His salary was $60 a month. When he was eighteen, he became principal of a school in Oxford, Idaho.
In 1936 Lee became managing director of the Church Welfare Program. Although he also pursued a political career, he began full-time work for the church when he was called to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in 1941, and he worked for the Church until the day he died.
Shortly after marrying, Spencer Kimball received employment in banking. After working for several different banks, in 1927 he started his own insurance and real estate agency. Additionally, he made a significant portion of his income as a debt collector. This he continued until his call into full time church service and was called to the Quorum of Twelve Apostles at age 48.
I suppose you could say he had been a successful business man.
Gordon B.Hinckley worked for the LDS Church from the time he returned from his mission.
In 1945, at age 17, Thomas Monson joined the United States Naval Reserve and anticipated participating in World War II in the Pacific theater.He was sent to San Diego, California but was not moved overseas before the end of the war. His tour of duty lasted six months beyond the end of the war, and after it was completed he returned to the University of Utah. Monson graduated cum laude in 1948 with a bachelor's degree in business management.
After college he rejoined the Naval Reserve with the aim of becoming an officer. Shortly after receiving his commission acceptance letter, his ward bishop asked him to serve as a counselor in the bishopric. Time conflicts with bishopric meetings would have made serving in the Navy impossible. After discussing things with church apostle Harold B. Lee (his former stake president), Monson declined the commission and applied for a discharge. The Navy granted his discharge in the last group processed before the Korean War. Lee set him apart six months later as a bishop—mentioning in the the blessing that he likely would not have been called if he had accepted the commission.
Thomas Monson taught for a time at the University of Utah, then began a career in publishing. His first job was with the Deseret News, where he became an advertising executive until he was called to be an apostle in 1963 at age 36.
I said most, still they are humble simple men who live modestly, is the point.
If that's what you believe...you STILL haven't read the accounts I provided which conclude that a number of themt lived beyond their means, borrowed heavily upon the Church's funds, and in a number of cases...never repaid what they had borrowed.
Doesn't bother me, there human, they make mistakes,
course I'm not relying on your anti sites information as fact as you are either.
The ones I have known are humble men, simple men, servants of God. I don't bash them for their possible short comings. Only one man was perfect.
I would say overall and mostly, they are humble men, and live within their means.
I did not find this information on anti sites Kent. It is a matter of Church history, and Church records.
As I showed when I provided the information.
How many Prophets have you personally 'known' in your young life?
How many have you?
Answer my question first...and then I'll consider answering yours.
Doesn't matter, I have recieved spiritual confirmation.
(cue Jaye's comment about knowing those here)
Not the same.Psst Percy Those voices you hear in your head. It's not the holy spirit. Try getting on the right medication and, they'll go away.
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Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
Albert Einstein
Ultimately a hero is a man who would argue with the gods, and so awakens devils to contest his vision.
Mailer, Norman Kingsley
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The administrator has disabled public write access. |
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