KitKat (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 16427
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: 53
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Dubbs wrote:KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?
He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen! 
Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?
So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?
Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right 
That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.
Go grow up, Dubbs.
There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.
Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.
Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?
You're such an arrogant little SOB.
No, not what I'm saying.
what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.
Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.
Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?
Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.
Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.
KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.
This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.
Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.
The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.
I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.
That is the LDS view on it.
Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"
Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.
Joseph Smith's mother educated her sons using the Holy Bible as a primer. It was a great part of his emotional and psychological upbringing, contained most of his spiritual education, and the Book of Mormon borrows heavily at times from verses from the Holy Bible.
Don't forget...the Nephites originated in the Holy land. The knowledge, laws, and teachings of the Old Testament was their basic ancestry, and the core of their heritage.
The Bible comes first. Not only does it contain a record and genealogy of the people of the covenant,the House of Israel, it contains record of God's will and His laws for these people.
The very will, and the very laws that Lehi and his family carried with them from the Holy land.
The Old Testament also contains numerous prophesies regarding the coming of a promised Messiah, who would free Israel from the bonds of slavery, and oppression.
The New Testament contains record, within the Four Gospels, of Christ's birth, ministry, death, and resurrection.
The Bible is the primary testament to Jesus Christ.
And the Book of Mormon, is the secondary testament to Jesus Christ.
Or...as it is stated on the first page of the Book of Mormon...'ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST'.
It does not say, nor is it meant to be considered to be a replacement for the Bible, nor to draw attention from the Bible, nor to gainsay the Bible.
Once again...you have GROSSLY misinterpreted and misrepresented my words and my beliefs.
But that is only par for the course with you.
From my understanding and readings, they are equal, one is not above the other.
Although the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion. And, the Book of Mormon is "Another" testement, that does not interpret to "secondary" in anyone's mind but yours.
You need to stop trying to speak for everyone else. As far as I am concerned, the Book of Mormon is secondary to the Bible. If I were to be stranded on an island, and could only take one Scripture with me, it would be the Holy Bible. I know you'll disagree, that's ok. But this is how I feel.
Another thing, dubs. When I took Seminary, it was a three year program. The courses were 1) Old Testament, 2) New Testament and 3) Church History. Now, if we wanted to, we could take an extra credit class after school. I did. That class was the Book of Mormon. And that's one more reason I hold the Bible higher.
If you can show me the church believes the Bible is more important, I'd like to see it, never seen that, I've always been taught their equal.
Then why was my Seminary set up the way it was? To study the Book of Mormon, we had to take an after school/extra credit class. Don't believe it was that way? Too bad. It was.
Chronlogical order.Read and comprehend, dar dar. Church History BEFORE the Book of Mormon? LOL...
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A naughty and piquant wench...and a wicked witch
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KitKat (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 16427
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: 53
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Dubbs wrote:KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?
He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen!
Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?
So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?
Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right
That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.
Go grow up, Dubbs.
There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.
Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.
Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?
You're such an arrogant little SOB.
No, not what I'm saying.
what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.
Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.
Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?
Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.
Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.
KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.
This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.
Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.
The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.
I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.
That is the LDS view on it.
Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"
Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.
Enough of the "get in bed" thing. It doesn't fit! It's as if, to really live the Gospel, you'd have to get deep into bed, and stay there. Once you get out of bed, you're no longer living the Gospel. So that saying does not apply. Drop it.
And now, in the Quadruple Combinations, which book comes first? The BIBLE! Then the Book of Mormon. You never see the Book of Mormon printed first. And that says enough for me.
Now your getting it, if you don't get in bed deep enough, you'll fall out. Good Job sister, your starting to grasp it.
As far as which order in the triple combination and which one comes first, the church has never said which one is more important, the order they come in really means nothing. They have said the scriptures are equal, so that's what I percieve them as, not one above another.
Of course that doesen't negate the teachings on the Bible and the evil hands it's passed through, and things that are plain and precious that have been taken out, and the need for proper translation.
It's not important to anyone else what YOU perceive about the scriptures Dubss.
Here is what the Church has to say about the scriptures, from LDS.org
Commandments
Study the Scriptures
Does God have more to teach us? Does God have more to teach us?
From the beginning, the Lord has commanded His prophets to keep records of His revelations? and His dealings with His children. These sacred? records, recorded by the prophets under the influence of the Holy Ghost, are called scriptures?. You demonstrate faith by studying, believing, and obeying Godâs revealed word and diligently searching the scriptures to understand the truth. As you feast upon the scriptures, they will teach you about Jesus Christ and His gospel? and will open the door to revelation, showing you what you need to do and become.
The approved scriptures of the Church, also called the standard works, are the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price?. With divine assistance, Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon and recorded other revelations he received from God in two books of modern-day scripture: the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. These additional books of scripture show that God continues to give revelation through His chosen prophets to guide His children and that He has not left you alone.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recognizes the following books as scripture:
* The Bible?, a collection of sacred writings containing Godâs revelations and accounts of His dealings with His children and testifying of Jesus Christ. The historical accounts in the Bible cover many centuries, from the time of Adam through the death of the Apostles?. The books of the Bible were written by and about prophets who lived at various times in the history of the world.
* The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ?, a record of Godâs dealings with the inhabitants of ancient America.
* The Doctrine and Covenants?, a collection of revelations and inspired declarations given for the establishment and regulation of the Church of Jesus Christ in the last days.
* The Pearl of Great Price?, a selection of revelations, translations, and writings of Joseph Smith.
By studying these books daily, you will gain increased faith in Jesus Christ, will grow more like your Father in Heaven, and will be better able to live righteously. The scriptures will bring you more joy, hope, and understanding of Godâs plan and your place in it.
Jesus Christ invites you to âfeastâ upon His words ( 2 Nephi 32:3), which implies more than casually reading the scriptures. It means to study them, ponder them, compare verses, learn passages by heart, treasure them, and delight in them. As you feast upon the scriptures, asking God for understanding, the Holy Ghost will let you know they are true.
There are many witnesses of the resurrected Jesus Christ found in the Bible:
* The first witness was Mary Magdalene, a faithful woman who saw the Savior soon after He arose from His tomb. She ran to tell His disciples in Jerusalem ( John 20:11â18).
* On the road to Emmaus, Christ walked and talked with two more of His disciples. He later visited with them in their home ( Luke 24:13â35).
* That evening, He showed himself to a group of His Apostles. The Apostle Thomas, who was not there, would not believe Christ was truly alive until a week later when he felt for himself the wounds in Christâs body ( John 20:19â29).
* The Apostle Paul states that the resurrected Christ later appeared to âfive hundred brethren at onceâ and, subsequently, to Paul himself ( 1 Corinthians 15:6â8).
The New Testament contains the accounts of many people who were personal witnesses of Jesus Christ. Among these are:
* Simeon, who was promised that he would not die âbefore he had seen the Lordâs Christ.â When Joseph and Mary brought the baby Jesus to the temple, Simeon held Him and knew the promise had been fulfilled ( Luke 2:25â35).
* Mary and Martha, who witnessed the miracle of Christ raising their brother Lazarus from the dead ( John 11:1â44).
* A woman from Samaria, who talked with Christ when they met at a well. He told her that He was the Messiah called Christ that she had been anticipating ( John 4:6â26).
* Mary Magdalene, who was near the cross during Christâs Crucifixion and was the first to see Him after His Resurrection ( John 20:13â18).
* Christâs Apostles, who saw Him, talked with Him, and even ate with Him after His Resurrection ( Luke 24:36â48).
Prophets of the Old Testament knew of Christ centuries before His birth. Some had visions of His birth, life, ministry, and Second Coming. They taught the people to look forward to the coming of the Savior.
* Jacob blessed his son Judah that his descendants would rule until Christ (Shiloh) would come ( Genesis 49:10).
* Moses prophesied of Christâs coming and commanded Israel to follow Him ( Deuteronomy 18:15).
* Isaiah foretold the birth and mission of the Savior and also prophesied of His Second Coming ( Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 53:4â5; Isaiah 40:5).
* Jeremiah taught that Christ would come through the line of David ( Jeremiah 23:5).
* Ezekiel taught Israel of the Resurrection that would come about because of Jesus Christ ( Ezekiel 37:11â14).
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Revelation
The making known of divine truths by communication from God.
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Sacred
Regarded with reverence; holy.
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Scripture
A sacred writing or book; the word of God as revealed to His inspired prophets.
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Gospel
The âgood newsâ of Godâs plan for the salvation of mankind. At the center of His plan is the Atoning sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ, in whom alone salvation is possible. In its fulness, the gospel includes all of the commandments, principles, ordinances, and covenants whereby human beings can be forgiven of sin, overcome the world, and attain immortality and eternal life in the kingdom of God.
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Bible
One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Holy Bible is divided into two main books: the Old Testament, which contains a history of Godâs people before the birth of Jesus Christ, and the New Testament, which is a record of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and His disciples. Each of these books is broken up into smaller books, which are divided into chapters and verses. A reference from the Bible may look like this: Matthew 7:21.
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Book of Mormon
A volume of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a collection of writings and teachings of the ancient prophets and followers of Jesus Christ who lived in the Americas from approximately 590 B.C. to 421 A.D. The Prophet Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by divine inspiration from gold plates that he received from the angel Moroni. Books in the Book of Mormon are named after the prophets who kept the records, such as Nephi, Mosiah, Alma, and Mormon. A reference from the Book of Mormon may look like this: Alma 37:35-37.
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Doctrine and Covenants
One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of modern-day revelations and inspired declarations given by God to the Church through the Prophet Joseph Smith and other latter-day Presidents of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is divided into sections, and into verses within those sections. A reference in the Doctrine and Covenants may look like this: Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9, or D&C 9:7-9.
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Pearl of Great Price
One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Pearl of Great Price includes extracts from Joseph Smithâs Translation (inspired version) of the Bible as well as a translation of some Egyptian papyri containing the writings of the prophet Abraham, excerpts from Joseph Smithâs testimony and history, and the Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A reference from the Pearl of Great Price may look like this: Moses 5:19.
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Apostle
One sent forth to serve as a special witness of Jesus Christ. There are fifteen Apostles living on the earth today. They make up the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church.
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Bible
One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Holy Bible is divided into two main books: the Old Testament, which contains a history of Godâs people before the birth of Jesus Christ, and the New Testament, which is a record of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and His disciples. Each of these books is broken up into smaller books, which are divided into chapters and verses. A reference from the Bible may look like this: Matthew 7:21.
close window
Book of Mormon
A volume of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a collection of writings and teachings of the ancient prophets and followers of Jesus Christ who lived in the Americas from approximately 590 B.C. to 421 A.D. The Prophet Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by divine inspiration from gold plates that he received from the angel Moroni. Books in the Book of Mormon are named after the prophets who kept the records, such as Nephi, Mosiah, Alma, and Mormon. A reference from the Book of Mormon may look like this: Alma 37:35-37.
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Doctrine and Covenants
One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of modern-day revelations and inspired declarations given by God to the Church through the Prophet Joseph Smith and other latter-day Presidents of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is divided into sections, and into verses within those sections. A reference in the Doctrine and Covenants may look like this: Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9, or D&C 9:7-9.
close window
Pearl of Great Price
One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Pearl of Great Price includes extracts from Joseph Smithâs Translation (inspired version) of the Bible as well as a translation of some Egyptian papyri containing the writings of the prophet Abraham, excerpts from Joseph Smithâs testimony and history, and the Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A reference from the Pearl of Great Price may look like this: Moses 5:19.
Additional Resources
Free Book of Mormon
Free Book of Mormon
* Request a Copy
* Read Online
Free Holy Bible
Free Holy Bible
* Request a Copy
* Read Online
Official Web site of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints | © 2007 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved"
As you can see...the Holy Bible is listed first, and foremost.
Followed by the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.
I don't see any of your claims in that long winded copy and paste cliffy.
The fact is, the church does not view the Bible as above the Book of Mormon.
The fact is, the they do say that the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion and a man can get closer to God by reading it than any other book.
Thems the facts jack.
Here's another suggestion for you Kent.
Contact Church Headquarters and explain to them that their article regarding the Church's Standard Works of Scriptures is long winded.
Fact is, your post didn't verify your claim, it could be they are written in chronlogical order, not order of imporatance. One scripture is no more important than another.
You've flip-flopped then. Previously, you disrespected the Bible. Every time you call Wren a "Bible thumper", you are disrespecting the Bible. You have even disrepected Christ by calling him "Jeezus". You shouldn't even be talking religion, dubs. All you do is make the LDS faith look like a bunch of bumbling idiots.
I have never disprected the Bible, I have said the men who took out the plain and precious parts were disgusting, and the mistake in the current bible are disgusting, but Joseph corrected them, and it is now a holy book of scripture, I respect it now that it has been translated correctly.
Do you beleive the article of faith on the issue Kitkat?You have disrespected the Bible, and Jaye will verify it. How many times do I have to tell you I refuse to discuss my personal beliefs with you?? Stop asking. You can assume I don't have any, you can assume I'm too stupid. It's all fine with me.
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A naughty and piquant wench...and a wicked witch
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: -145
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Dubbs wrote:KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
This was told to me by a son of one the original investors. The local church leaders in North San Diego County took a good portion of the ward clerk's estate, which was supposed to go to the LDS church. Instead that money was used to invest in properties in San Luis Rey Valley. They all made a killing, they paid the money back into the church funds (without interest), and the church nor the law did nothing about it.
The integrity of the teller is beyond question, one of the most honorable people that I have ever met. He paid his father's debt out of his own funds after he father died when he had no legal reason to do so.
Heresay.
Dubss said..."Doesn't bother me, there human, they make mistakes, course I'm not relying on your anti sites information as fact as you are either.
The ones I have known are humble men, simple men, servants of God. I don't bash them for their possible short comings. Only one man was perfect.
I would say overall and mostly, they are humble men, and live within their means."
To which I will reply, using your own sentiment...HEARSAY.
I have recieved a spiritual confirmation that they are good men, have you? Doubt it, you don't know what a testimony of the restored gospel is.
That kind of smart aleck remark right there is why I refuse to share my beliefs with you. Get it now?
You don't because you are not articulate enough and are not studied enough to explain your beliefs. That's why.WOW Dubbs I see you finally bought that Dictionary "LOL" articulate "LOL" Dubbs "LOL" studied "LOL" Dubbs "LOL" THANKS FOR THE LAUGH DUBBS, that was good "LOL" 
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The Order of Thistle Knighthood
we are gallant warriors and gentlemen to fair ladies by way of noble chivalry.
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Betzz (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 6001
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: 14
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JLD wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Was it worth 1.2 when it was built? How much was it worth?
Is it a penthouse luxury extravagent condo?
Fact is, they are not given the condo, so the worth is not relavent,
Fact is, the condo is not extravagent, it has just appriciated in value, because of it's location and it is really one of a kind in that area. Big whoop.
Have you ever been to this condo? Think about it, dude . . . if the value of a FREAKING CONDO IN DOWNTOWN SALT LAKE CITY is $1.2 mil that says a hell of a lot more than saying a 50 year old house in California is worth $800,000. My nephews house in Huntington Beach sold for $800,000 last year and it's a 3 bed, 2 bath bungalow. The same house in SLC would sell for maybe $150,000. Big difference in the markets, so don't try to compare it to your parents house. Doesn't work.
No one is arguing whether or not the condo is "given" to them. Everyone knows that it doesn't become personal property - why do you even keep bringing that up?
Like I said before, I think about it from the perspective of the average family who is struggling to pay for food, clothing, shelter, and tithing (willingly, I know) and I see it as a bit extravagant.
Why do you have such a hard time with anyone disagreeing with you even on minor little issues?
In that failed Midtown Village they have condos/appts (I'm not sure which they call them) valued up to 1.6mil. Crazy huh?
But back to the item you were discussing. Given the location, how extravagant would the residence of the Prophet be in reality? Taking into account the location (the biggest factor), size (who uses the suite, does it include conference rooms, waiting areas, servant amenities, guest amenities) comfortable furnishings, amenities (communications, security systems, etc.) I don't believe it would take much to add up to 1.2mil. I know that might sound crazy but without seeing what is provided in person it is hard to say one way or the other.
Also worth noting is that the Prophets are old men, often in failing health, that need reliable and functional surroundings. The suite is also host to a variety of tasks in addition to simply "living" including conferences, meetings, study, stuff like that. Given the crazy nature of the world the Prophet also needs security. Given his public persona he needs to take into account wardrobe and presentation as well.
I would wonder if it looks much like a playboy's penthouse or more like a cross between a suite in a nice geriatric hospital and the boardroom here at work.
JLD, I don't disagree with anything you are saying. This discussion goes back to a comment Dubbsy made about the type of house the pastor of my church lives in. I, for one, don't have a problem with clergy being paid or compensated in any way for the time they spend, but if said clergy is living in a residence that is well beyond the means of most of the people that pay for their expenses, I would have some questions.
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Proud to be a wicked witch and uppity wench.
Words for Dubbs from an apostle: "More regrettable than the [LDS] Church being accused of not being Christian is when church members react to such accusations in an un-Christlike way," Apostle Robert D. Hales said on the second day of the two-day conference. "Surely our Heavenly Father is saddened - and the devil laughs - when we contentiously debate doctrinal differences with our Christian neighbors."
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Betzz (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 6001
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Re:LDS Church excommunicates calendar maker 5 Months, 2 Weeks ago
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Karma: 14
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KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
This was told to me by a son of one the original investors. The local church leaders in North San Diego County took a good portion of the ward clerk's estate, which was supposed to go to the LDS church. Instead that money was used to invest in properties in San Luis Rey Valley. They all made a killing, they paid the money back into the church funds (without interest), and the church nor the law did nothing about it.
The integrity of the teller is beyond question, one of the most honorable people that I have ever met. He paid his father's debt out of his own funds after he father died when he had no legal reason to do so.
Heresay.
Dubss said..."Doesn't bother me, there human, they make mistakes, course I'm not relying on your anti sites information as fact as you are either.
The ones I have known are humble men, simple men, servants of God. I don't bash them for their possible short comings. Only one man was perfect.
I would say overall and mostly, they are humble men, and live within their means."
To which I will reply, using your own sentiment...HEARSAY.
I have recieved a spiritual confirmation that they are good men, have you? Doubt it, you don't know what a testimony of the restored gospel is.
That kind of smart aleck remark right there is why I refuse to share my beliefs with you. Get it now?
You don't because you are not articulate enough and are not studied enough to explain your beliefs. That's why.
Think that if you want. But I'm much more articulate than you will ever, EVER be.
Do you think you're perfect? You certainly come across as if you do.
He got tired of using dense and moved up to the big-boy words. I bet he had to use the Thesaurus in Word for quite a while to come up with "articulate."
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Last Edit: 2008/07/22 20:17 By Betzz.
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Proud to be a wicked witch and uppity wench.
Words for Dubbs from an apostle: "More regrettable than the [LDS] Church being accused of not being Christian is when church members react to such accusations in an un-Christlike way," Apostle Robert D. Hales said on the second day of the two-day conference. "Surely our Heavenly Father is saddened - and the devil laughs - when we contentiously debate doctrinal differences with our Christian neighbors."
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