Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?



He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen!

Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?

So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?


Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right

That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.

Go grow up, Dubbs.


There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.

Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.

Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?

You're such an arrogant little SOB.

No, not what I'm saying.

what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.

Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.

Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?

Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.


Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.

KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.

This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.


Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.


The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.

I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.

That is the LDS view on it.

Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"

Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.
Enough of the "get in bed" thing. It doesn't fit! It's as if, to really live the Gospel, you'd have to get deep into bed, and stay there. Once you get out of bed, you're no longer living the Gospel. So that saying does not apply. Drop it.

And now, in the Quadruple Combinations, which book comes first? The BIBLE! Then the Book of Mormon. You never see the Book of Mormon printed first. And that says enough for me.


Now your getting it, if you don't get in bed deep enough, you'll fall out. Good Job sister, your starting to grasp it.


As far as which order in the triple combination and which one comes first, the church has never said which one is more important, the order they come in really means nothing. They have said the scriptures are equal, so that's what I percieve them as, not one above another.

Of course that doesen't negate the teachings on the Bible and the evil hands it's passed through, and things that are plain and precious that have been taken out, and the need for proper translation.
No, I'm not getting it as far as your "get in bed" crappy goes. Read my comment again carefully. I mean CAREFULLY. And try to comprehend what I said. Especially the part I just bolded.


wow, kitkat, everyone else get's it, your the only one who doesn't.

Let's start over, it's an analogy.

"the Gospel is like getting into bed, if you don't get in far enough, you will fall out."

Now, if you get in bed, and your leg is hanging off the side of the bed, and you are not in all the way, the chances of falling out during the night go up, do they not???

Getting it now? Or should I continue to explain to your feeble mind?
No, you're the feeble one. My leg always hangs over, or my arm does. My view is this: No one spends their whole life in bed. Eventually, we all get out/fall out, no matter how far in we were were during the night. So do we stop living the gospel during the day? That is what makes your analogy so stupid.

Wow.

It's an analogy Kitkat, your taking it literally. wow.
Finally you get it. Your analogy does not fit. It makes no sense. That's why I don't like it, and at least two other people objected to it to. Not just me.

It makes perfect sense if you have half a brain.

Jaye's just arguing it because it's me, as are you.

Dubss said..."It makes perfect sense if you have half a brain."

HAR!!!

OH...ABSO-FLIPPIN-LUTELY!

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
[But one thing is certain...as indicated by your behavior on this forum...you most certainly do NOT study and LIVE the gospel.


I take that as a compliment coming from a guy who drinks wine, breaks the WOW, is inactive, lies in temple recommend interviews, doesn't believe most of the LDS doctrine, derides the brethren, has no testimony to begin with.

The only accurate thing on your little list is the part about the wine...and we all know that I am simply following the doctrine as revealed by the Lord to Joseph Smith in the D&C.

But that still doesn't change the fact that you, through your words and behavior on this forum are not living the gospel.

So...blah,blah,blah,HYPOCRITE,blah,blah,blah!

JLD wrote:
WREN:

Prove it. Find a credible source that states that this is what the Church intended to convey on this official Church website.

I'll go into this more at a later time. I have some errands I have to attend to.

Is it possible with the resources we have available to prove any order at all to the importance of one tome of scripture over another?

Would it be wrong to say that the importance of a piece of scripture would be dependent upon the circumstances? What seems of great importance to a person during one event of their life may not seem as important as another scripture during another of life's events...

1. JLD...that was my post...not Wren's.

2. JLD asks..."Is it possible with the resources we have available to prove any order at all to the importance of one tome of scripture over another?"

Apparently Dubss thinks so.

3. JLD asks..."Would it be wrong to say that the importance of a piece of scripture would be dependent upon the circumstances? What seems of great importance to a person during one event of their life may not seem as important as another scripture during another of life's events."

It would not be wrong at all.

The level of importance of any religious or academic tome(s) lies within the individual who reads it.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Kent...you have not yet addressed the FACT that the phrase...'getting into bed with' is usually a derogatory phrase.

'Getting into bed with the mob'...'getting into bed with the Syndicate'...'getting into bed with terrorists'...or in a political meaning...'getting into bed with special interest groups'.

It is NOT a complimentary terminology.


So if your say to your kids, time for Bed, go get in bed kids, it's derogatory?

Always? No excpetions?


you are delusional.

You are splitting hairs and arguing semantics.

This has nothing to do with the semantics or meanings of the phrase you used.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubss said..."The fact is, the church does not view the Bible as above the Book of Mormon.

The fact is, the they do say that the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion and a man can get closer to God by reading it than any other book."

Prove it.

I misspoke, it is the keystone to our religion, Christ being the cornerstone.

You want me to prove this? I would take me 30 seconds, that you have never heard this is another sign, get in bed cliffy, further, snuggle up, tighten the blankets around you.

1. You misspoke alright. Par for the course with you.

2. I am well aware that the LDS Church considers the Book of Mormon to be the keystone to the faith...and Christ to be the cornerstone.

But neither me, you, OR the Church can prove that God considers the Book of Mormon to be of higher import than the Bible...and that overrules individual belief.

3. The only one I get in bed with is my wife.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?



He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen!

Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?

So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?


Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right

That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.

Go grow up, Dubbs.


There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.

Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.

Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?

You're such an arrogant little SOB.

No, not what I'm saying.

what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.

Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.

Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?

Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.


Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.

KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.

This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.


Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.


The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.

I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.

That is the LDS view on it.

Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"

Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.
Enough of the "get in bed" thing. It doesn't fit! It's as if, to really live the Gospel, you'd have to get deep into bed, and stay there. Once you get out of bed, you're no longer living the Gospel. So that saying does not apply. Drop it.

And now, in the Quadruple Combinations, which book comes first? The BIBLE! Then the Book of Mormon. You never see the Book of Mormon printed first. And that says enough for me.


Now your getting it, if you don't get in bed deep enough, you'll fall out. Good Job sister, your starting to grasp it.


As far as which order in the triple combination and which one comes first, the church has never said which one is more important, the order they come in really means nothing. They have said the scriptures are equal, so that's what I percieve them as, not one above another.

Of course that doesen't negate the teachings on the Bible and the evil hands it's passed through, and things that are plain and precious that have been taken out, and the need for proper translation.

It's not important to anyone else what YOU perceive about the scriptures Dubss.

Here is what the Church has to say about the scriptures, from LDS.org

Commandments
Study the Scriptures
Does God have more to teach us? Does God have more to teach us?

From the beginning, the Lord has commanded His prophets to keep records of His revelations? and His dealings with His children. These sacred? records, recorded by the prophets under the influence of the Holy Ghost, are called scriptures?. You demonstrate faith by studying, believing, and obeying God�s revealed word and diligently searching the scriptures to understand the truth. As you feast upon the scriptures, they will teach you about Jesus Christ and His gospel? and will open the door to revelation, showing you what you need to do and become.

The approved scriptures of the Church, also called the standard works, are the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price?. With divine assistance, Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon and recorded other revelations he received from God in two books of modern-day scripture: the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. These additional books of scripture show that God continues to give revelation through His chosen prophets to guide His children and that He has not left you alone.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recognizes the following books as scripture:

* The Bible?, a collection of sacred writings containing God�s revelations and accounts of His dealings with His children and testifying of Jesus Christ. The historical accounts in the Bible cover many centuries, from the time of Adam through the death of the Apostles?. The books of the Bible were written by and about prophets who lived at various times in the history of the world.
* The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ?, a record of God�s dealings with the inhabitants of ancient America.
* The Doctrine and Covenants?, a collection of revelations and inspired declarations given for the establishment and regulation of the Church of Jesus Christ in the last days.
* The Pearl of Great Price?, a selection of revelations, translations, and writings of Joseph Smith.

By studying these books daily, you will gain increased faith in Jesus Christ, will grow more like your Father in Heaven, and will be better able to live righteously. The scriptures will bring you more joy, hope, and understanding of God�s plan and your place in it.

Jesus Christ invites you to �feast� upon His words ( 2 Nephi 32:3), which implies more than casually reading the scriptures. It means to study them, ponder them, compare verses, learn passages by heart, treasure them, and delight in them. As you feast upon the scriptures, asking God for understanding, the Holy Ghost will let you know they are true.

There are many witnesses of the resurrected Jesus Christ found in the Bible:

* The first witness was Mary Magdalene, a faithful woman who saw the Savior soon after He arose from His tomb. She ran to tell His disciples in Jerusalem ( John 20:11�18).
* On the road to Emmaus, Christ walked and talked with two more of His disciples. He later visited with them in their home ( Luke 24:13�35).
* That evening, He showed himself to a group of His Apostles. The Apostle Thomas, who was not there, would not believe Christ was truly alive until a week later when he felt for himself the wounds in Christ�s body ( John 20:19�29).
* The Apostle Paul states that the resurrected Christ later appeared to �five hundred brethren at once� and, subsequently, to Paul himself ( 1 Corinthians 15:6�8).

The New Testament contains the accounts of many people who were personal witnesses of Jesus Christ. Among these are:

* Simeon, who was promised that he would not die �before he had seen the Lord�s Christ.� When Joseph and Mary brought the baby Jesus to the temple, Simeon held Him and knew the promise had been fulfilled ( Luke 2:25�35).
* Mary and Martha, who witnessed the miracle of Christ raising their brother Lazarus from the dead ( John 11:1�44).
* A woman from Samaria, who talked with Christ when they met at a well. He told her that He was the Messiah called Christ that she had been anticipating ( John 4:6�26).
* Mary Magdalene, who was near the cross during Christ�s Crucifixion and was the first to see Him after His Resurrection ( John 20:13�18).
* Christ�s Apostles, who saw Him, talked with Him, and even ate with Him after His Resurrection ( Luke 24:36�48).

Prophets of the Old Testament knew of Christ centuries before His birth. Some had visions of His birth, life, ministry, and Second Coming. They taught the people to look forward to the coming of the Savior.

* Jacob blessed his son Judah that his descendants would rule until Christ (Shiloh) would come ( Genesis 49:10).
* Moses prophesied of Christ�s coming and commanded Israel to follow Him ( Deuteronomy 18:15).
* Isaiah foretold the birth and mission of the Savior and also prophesied of His Second Coming ( Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 53:4�5; Isaiah 40:5).
* Jeremiah taught that Christ would come through the line of David ( Jeremiah 23:5).
* Ezekiel taught Israel of the Resurrection that would come about because of Jesus Christ ( Ezekiel 37:11�14).

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Revelation

The making known of divine truths by communication from God.
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Sacred

Regarded with reverence; holy.
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Scripture

A sacred writing or book; the word of God as revealed to His inspired prophets.
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Gospel

The �good news� of God�s plan for the salvation of mankind. At the center of His plan is the Atoning sacrifice of His son Jesus Christ, in whom alone salvation is possible. In its fulness, the gospel includes all of the commandments, principles, ordinances, and covenants whereby human beings can be forgiven of sin, overcome the world, and attain immortality and eternal life in the kingdom of God.
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Bible

One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Holy Bible is divided into two main books: the Old Testament, which contains a history of God�s people before the birth of Jesus Christ, and the New Testament, which is a record of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and His disciples. Each of these books is broken up into smaller books, which are divided into chapters and verses. A reference from the Bible may look like this: Matthew 7:21.
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Book of Mormon

A volume of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a collection of writings and teachings of the ancient prophets and followers of Jesus Christ who lived in the Americas from approximately 590 B.C. to 421 A.D. The Prophet Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by divine inspiration from gold plates that he received from the angel Moroni. Books in the Book of Mormon are named after the prophets who kept the records, such as Nephi, Mosiah, Alma, and Mormon. A reference from the Book of Mormon may look like this: Alma 37:35-37.
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Doctrine and Covenants

One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of modern-day revelations and inspired declarations given by God to the Church through the Prophet Joseph Smith and other latter-day Presidents of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is divided into sections, and into verses within those sections. A reference in the Doctrine and Covenants may look like this: Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9, or D&C 9:7-9.
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Pearl of Great Price

One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Pearl of Great Price includes extracts from Joseph Smith�s Translation (inspired version) of the Bible as well as a translation of some Egyptian papyri containing the writings of the prophet Abraham, excerpts from Joseph Smith�s testimony and history, and the Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A reference from the Pearl of Great Price may look like this: Moses 5:19.
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Apostle

One sent forth to serve as a special witness of Jesus Christ. There are fifteen Apostles living on the earth today. They make up the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church.
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Bible

One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Holy Bible is divided into two main books: the Old Testament, which contains a history of God�s people before the birth of Jesus Christ, and the New Testament, which is a record of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ and His disciples. Each of these books is broken up into smaller books, which are divided into chapters and verses. A reference from the Bible may look like this: Matthew 7:21.
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Book of Mormon

A volume of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ is a collection of writings and teachings of the ancient prophets and followers of Jesus Christ who lived in the Americas from approximately 590 B.C. to 421 A.D. The Prophet Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon by divine inspiration from gold plates that he received from the angel Moroni. Books in the Book of Mormon are named after the prophets who kept the records, such as Nephi, Mosiah, Alma, and Mormon. A reference from the Book of Mormon may look like this: Alma 37:35-37.
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Doctrine and Covenants

One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is a collection of modern-day revelations and inspired declarations given by God to the Church through the Prophet Joseph Smith and other latter-day Presidents of the Church. The Doctrine and Covenants is divided into sections, and into verses within those sections. A reference in the Doctrine and Covenants may look like this: Doctrine and Covenants 9:7-9, or D&C 9:7-9.
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Pearl of Great Price

One of the volumes of scripture included in the standard works of the Church. The Pearl of Great Price includes extracts from Joseph Smith�s Translation (inspired version) of the Bible as well as a translation of some Egyptian papyri containing the writings of the prophet Abraham, excerpts from Joseph Smith�s testimony and history, and the Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A reference from the Pearl of Great Price may look like this: Moses 5:19.

Additional Resources
Free Book of Mormon
Free Book of Mormon

* Request a Copy
* Read Online

Free Holy Bible
Free Holy Bible

* Request a Copy
* Read Online


Official Web site of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints | © 2007 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved"


As you can see...the Holy Bible is listed first, and foremost.

Followed by the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.


I don't see any of your claims in that long winded copy and paste cliffy.

The fact is, the church does not view the Bible as above the Book of Mormon.

The fact is, the they do say that the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion and a man can get closer to God by reading it than any other book.

Thems the facts jack.

Here's another suggestion for you Kent.

Contact Church Headquarters and explain to them that their article regarding the Church's Standard Works of Scriptures is long winded.


Fact is, your post didn't verify your claim, it could be they are written in chronlogical order, not order of imporatance. One scripture is no more important than another.

Not what you've been saying all along.

You have, in past discussions, referred to the Bible as disgusting.

You have, in past discussions, stated that the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on the face of the earth.

You have, in past discussions, stated that the Book of Mormon is the keystone to the LDS faith.

You have only recently, in light of the facts presented to you, altered your claims to say that the two books are equal.