Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?



He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen!

Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?

So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?


Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right

That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.

Go grow up, Dubbs.


There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.

Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.

Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?

You're such an arrogant little SOB.

No, not what I'm saying.

what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.

Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.

Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?

Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.


Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.

KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.

This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.


Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.


The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.

I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.

That is the LDS view on it.

Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"

Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.

Joseph Smith's mother educated her sons using the Holy Bible as a primer. It was a great part of his emotional and psychological upbringing, contained most of his spiritual education, and the Book of Mormon borrows heavily at times from verses from the Holy Bible.

Don't forget...the Nephites originated in the Holy land. The knowledge, laws, and teachings of the Old Testament was their basic ancestry, and the core of their heritage.

The Bible comes first. Not only does it contain a record and genealogy of the people of the covenant,the House of Israel, it contains record of God's will and His laws for these people.

The very will, and the very laws that Lehi and his family carried with them from the Holy land.

The Old Testament also contains numerous prophesies regarding the coming of a promised Messiah, who would free Israel from the bonds of slavery, and oppression.

The New Testament contains record, within the Four Gospels, of Christ's birth, ministry, death, and resurrection.

The Bible is the primary testament to Jesus Christ.

And the Book of Mormon, is the secondary testament to Jesus Christ.

Or...as it is stated on the first page of the Book of Mormon...'ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST'.

It does not say, nor is it meant to be considered to be a replacement for the Bible, nor to draw attention from the Bible, nor to gainsay the Bible.

Once again...you have GROSSLY misinterpreted and misrepresented my words and my beliefs.

But that is only par for the course with you.

From my understanding and readings, they are equal, one is not above the other.

Although the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion. And, the Book of Mormon is "Another" testement, that does not interpret to "secondary" in anyone's mind but yours.
You need to stop trying to speak for everyone else. As far as I am concerned, the Book of Mormon is secondary to the Bible. If I were to be stranded on an island, and could only take one Scripture with me, it would be the Holy Bible. I know you'll disagree, that's ok. But this is how I feel.

Another thing, dubs. When I took Seminary, it was a three year program. The courses were 1) Old Testament, 2) New Testament and 3) Church History. Now, if we wanted to, we could take an extra credit class after school. I did. That class was the Book of Mormon. And that's one more reason I hold the Bible higher.


If you can show me the church believes the Bible is more important, I'd like to see it, never seen that, I've always been taught their equal.

Here is a fact for you to chew on.

The Bible is of the utmost importance to the LDS Church.

Why?

Because if a certain young lad hadn't ever read a passage in the Holy Bible regarding seeking wisdom directly from the Lord...this Church might not have existed. At least not as we know it.

And again, as usual you are not comprehending what I have said, I know it's important, but it is no more important that the book they call the "keystone" of our religion, and the book you can get closer to God than any other book would also seem to be just as important, as would modern day revelations found in the D&C. One no more important than the other

And...again...not what you have said before.

Flippety-flop...flippety-flop...flippety-flop.

Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:

Russel Ballard clearly indicated that the Bible is directly responsible for motivating young Joseph Smith to walk out to an isolated grove of trees one morning.

Yes, sure it did, but that doesn't say anywhere that any scripture is more important than another, I'm still waiting for this claim.


This indicates to me that the Bible is of utmost importance to the LDS Church.

Utmost as much as the BofM, equal, here's proof from the BofM itself...

The Bible and the Book of Mormon "shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace" (2 Nephi 3:12).

If something grows together, they become equal.


It contains the first witness to salvation through Jesus Christ. And the Book of Mormon is simply another witness to salvation through Jesus Christ.

Simply another witness, to some it's the only witness, and their converstion tool, you downplay it's importance, without it, the LDS faith wouldn't exist.


If both are equal...than the Church's belief that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of the LDS Church is false, and misleading.

It is the keystone because without it, we would be just another church, with it, we have proof of continued revelation, Prophets, etc etc etc, our church would fall without it.

Please notice that Dubbs left out the statement that the Bible is the foundation of Mormonism.


Is the word foundation used in that post? Then how did I leave it out?



Kitkat correctly said that Christ is the Foundation and Cornerstone,

The scriptures are all equal in importance.

Go back and read ALL of Jaye's long post, and you will find it. Your are out of step with your apostles, which is heresy, when you voice it publicly.

Hmmm. . . Dubbs, are you Peter Danzig in drag?


I did, the word foundation is not used, even if it was, something crumbles without a foundation, something also crumbles without a keystone, so one is no more important than another.


Peter Danzig was a representative of the church, he went public with his opposition to church doctrine. This is why he got in trouble, as the church has the right to decide if a representative can deride the church in the way he did, in the end, they didn't do anything to him for his views, HE LEFT the church, telling.


Turn me in Wrenny, course they'd laugh at you.

Your meds are slipping.

You can build without a keystone, but not without a foundation. You, as a real estate guy, know this. If you don't go ask.

You are out of step with the church's teaching that the LDS church has as its foundation the Bible, without which, nothing else can stand.

I don't know why you are arguing this. The BoM was a conservative NT type of document that fit well into the 2nd Great Awakening. Once it was published, JS seemed to ignore as he went after new doctrines, particularly creating ones that allowed him to chase after women not his wife.


Opinion, conjecture, anti nonsense.

You wished it were so, I guess, but it is not.

It is the truth. Study JS and his doctrinal development. Who moved far away from the saving principles of the Bible, of which the BoM is an imitation.


We still believe the saving principles of the bible, faith, repentence, and baptism, by proper preisthood authority.

What he did learn, as we all do over time, is other things that are also important to exaltation, he learned them line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.


Be kind of funny to see God say, "Here Joseph, here's all our doctrine" And just spit it all out in one big 12 day speech. And expect him to remember it all.


God gives Prophets information in the manner he chooses, over time usually, so of course Joseph learned more as he grew in the Gospel. He replaced lost doctrine, restored lost keys, and gave us lost temple ordinances.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?



He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen!

Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?

So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?


Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right

That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.

Go grow up, Dubbs.


There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.

Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.

Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?

You're such an arrogant little SOB.

No, not what I'm saying.

what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.

Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.

Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?

Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.


Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.

KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.

This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.


Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.


The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.

I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.

That is the LDS view on it.

Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"

Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.

Joseph Smith's mother educated her sons using the Holy Bible as a primer. It was a great part of his emotional and psychological upbringing, contained most of his spiritual education, and the Book of Mormon borrows heavily at times from verses from the Holy Bible.

Don't forget...the Nephites originated in the Holy land. The knowledge, laws, and teachings of the Old Testament was their basic ancestry, and the core of their heritage.

The Bible comes first. Not only does it contain a record and genealogy of the people of the covenant,the House of Israel, it contains record of God's will and His laws for these people.

The very will, and the very laws that Lehi and his family carried with them from the Holy land.

The Old Testament also contains numerous prophesies regarding the coming of a promised Messiah, who would free Israel from the bonds of slavery, and oppression.

The New Testament contains record, within the Four Gospels, of Christ's birth, ministry, death, and resurrection.

The Bible is the primary testament to Jesus Christ.

And the Book of Mormon, is the secondary testament to Jesus Christ.

Or...as it is stated on the first page of the Book of Mormon...'ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST'.

It does not say, nor is it meant to be considered to be a replacement for the Bible, nor to draw attention from the Bible, nor to gainsay the Bible.

Once again...you have GROSSLY misinterpreted and misrepresented my words and my beliefs.

But that is only par for the course with you.

From my understanding and readings, they are equal, one is not above the other.

Although the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion. And, the Book of Mormon is "Another" testement, that does not interpret to "secondary" in anyone's mind but yours.
I disagree. Christ is the cornerstone of the Church.

I mispoke, it is the keystone, not cornerstone.

Scripturally, they are equal in my mind.

Interesting. You consider the Book of Mormon to be of equal importance with Jesus Christ Himself?

Scriptually, the Bible and Book of Mormon and D&C are equal is what was meant. I'm sure others got it.

No that is NOT what you meant, and you know it, I know it...and everyone else on this forum knows it.

The keystone and the Cornerstone are not equal as they apply to LDS belief, either scripturally...or in any other way.

The keystone being a book...and the Cornerstone being Christ Himself.

Dubbs write, "Yes, man made degrees to do something God has to call you to do. He also get's paid for his writing of priestcraft and anti mormon writings."

As do the general authorities for their priestcraft and pro Mormon writings.

No difference.

Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Percy you still haven't answered the question. What kind of accomodations did Jesus live in?



He can't answer the question because he knows if he answers truthfully, you'll have won the argument. And, by God, he can't let THAT happen!

Really eh Betzy? Let's see, you are now an apostate mormon that now goes to a "Christian" church correct?

So does your pastor work for free? Live in a Shack out back?


Don't be a hypocrite, your pastor works for filthy lucre, and priestcrafts his work. But hey, he got a degree from a university to preach, he must be right

That makes no more sense than for me to write your GAs work for fithy lucre and priestcraft is their work.

Go grow up, Dubbs.


There's a difference between making your living at preaching, and working for the Lord in your latter years as an apostle of the Lord, you've already worked your whole life in another career.

Filthy lucre is getting paid to preach incorrect doctrine also. Which they do.

Oh, so now you're saying the Bible is incorrect doctrine?

You're such an arrogant little SOB.

No, not what I'm saying.

what I'm saying is there "interpretation" of the bible is incorrect.
Interesting. That isn't what you've told me in the past. You've told me, quite bluntly, that you believe some of the Bible to be "incorrect". And you slammed me because I didn't agree with that.

Yes, some of the Bible is incorrect, and if you read Joseph Smith's edited footnotes in the LDS version of the KJ bible, you would know this.

Course you admitted you don't own one, so how would you know this?
Never admitted any such thing. You assume quite a bit, don't you?

Personally, I put the Bible above the Book of Mormon.


Fact remains, whether you put the Bible above the BofM (why a LDS person would do that is illogical, but that's you) The bible has many mistakes, and needed correcting, and that was done, that's the point, I have said it has many mistakes, but those mistakes if you study the Prophets have been corrected is the point.

KitKat is correct in putting the Bible above the Book of Mormon.

This is why the Book of Mormon is known as a SECOND witness of Jesus Christ...not the ONLY testament of Jesus Christ...or the REPLACEMENT to the Holy Bible.


Actually you are wrong here also, (surprise surprise) Get in bed Jaye.


The Book of Mormon is ANOTHER witness of Jesus Christ and the Most correct book of scripture on earth.

I wouldn't say either are ahead of the other, but the Bible is the one that is in need of interpretation because of the many errors, omissions, removal of doctrine, and mistakes. This has been done by the Prophets, they have replaced the plain and precious parts that were removed.

That is the LDS view on it.

Not a "second" witness, and nobody said it's the "only" testement, and it's not a "replacement"

Your views are so far off at times Jaye it's comical to see.

Joseph Smith's mother educated her sons using the Holy Bible as a primer. It was a great part of his emotional and psychological upbringing, contained most of his spiritual education, and the Book of Mormon borrows heavily at times from verses from the Holy Bible.

Don't forget...the Nephites originated in the Holy land. The knowledge, laws, and teachings of the Old Testament was their basic ancestry, and the core of their heritage.

The Bible comes first. Not only does it contain a record and genealogy of the people of the covenant,the House of Israel, it contains record of God's will and His laws for these people.

The very will, and the very laws that Lehi and his family carried with them from the Holy land.

The Old Testament also contains numerous prophesies regarding the coming of a promised Messiah, who would free Israel from the bonds of slavery, and oppression.

The New Testament contains record, within the Four Gospels, of Christ's birth, ministry, death, and resurrection.

The Bible is the primary testament to Jesus Christ.

And the Book of Mormon, is the secondary testament to Jesus Christ.

Or...as it is stated on the first page of the Book of Mormon...'ANOTHER TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST'.

It does not say, nor is it meant to be considered to be a replacement for the Bible, nor to draw attention from the Bible, nor to gainsay the Bible.

Once again...you have GROSSLY misinterpreted and misrepresented my words and my beliefs.

But that is only par for the course with you.

From my understanding and readings, they are equal, one is not above the other.

Although the Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of our religion. And, the Book of Mormon is "Another" testement, that does not interpret to "secondary" in anyone's mind but yours.
You need to stop trying to speak for everyone else. As far as I am concerned, the Book of Mormon is secondary to the Bible. If I were to be stranded on an island, and could only take one Scripture with me, it would be the Holy Bible. I know you'll disagree, that's ok. But this is how I feel.

Another thing, dubs. When I took Seminary, it was a three year program. The courses were 1) Old Testament, 2) New Testament and 3) Church History. Now, if we wanted to, we could take an extra credit class after school. I did. That class was the Book of Mormon. And that's one more reason I hold the Bible higher.


If you can show me the church believes the Bible is more important, I'd like to see it, never seen that, I've always been taught their equal.

Here is a fact for you to chew on.

The Bible is of the utmost importance to the LDS Church.

Why?

Because if a certain young lad hadn't ever read a passage in the Holy Bible regarding seeking wisdom directly from the Lord...this Church might not have existed. At least not as we know it.

And again, as usual you are not comprehending what I have said, I know it's important, but it is no more important that the book they call the "keystone" of our religion, and the book you can get closer to God than any other book would also seem to be just as important, as would modern day revelations found in the D&C. One no more important than the other

And...again...not what you have said before.

Flippety-flop...flippety-flop...flippety-flop.

I have not flip flopped at all, show me where I have, I am merely teaching you some things the the LDS church believes about the BofM that you don't seem to know.

Fact is, no book of scripture is more important than another.

Flippetty-flop, flippetty-flop, flippetty-flop,
Here comes Dubbs.