Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
[b
Now Dubbs do you see why others think the book of Mormon is such BS,, "LOL"

There's plenty who do not think it's BS, but know of it's truthfulness, you once used to bear testimony of it's truthfulness, then you let your hands slip from the rod that leads to salvation. Your now miring in the mist, heading towards the great and spacious building.

Dubss I like how you just cut out and Ignore all the facts that were in my post that you quote here "LOL"

Yes Dubbs I did once bear testimony that I thought that the BoM and the Church was True, I had thought that the Church was truthful about it's past and it's history that it told me!! I was shocked to find out just how UN-TRUTHFUL the Church had been too me and about it's self, I realized that if the Church were truly "True" It would not have to lie so much about it's self as it has....

Dubbs you can Ignore the truth about Joseph Smith the Book of Mormon and the Church all you want but in the end you will have to face just how wrong you are, as God said BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS......

Satan is a very very clever angel and he used Joseph Smith very Wisely to fool millions...

.


Here Dubbs read all of it this time and think Dubbs as you so often tell me!!

Dubbs it's only to be expected that in a set of texts written and collected over several thousand years that you would find changes or errors.
In any other collection, errors and contradictions would be unremarkable.

Dubbs the Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors over a period of around 1500 years. Each writer wrote from a different perspective, to a different audience, for a different purpose in different languages.

But Dubbs you don't seem to grasp what the changes were in the Bible, almost all of the changes are spelling changes, punctuation changes, Changes in type face etc.

You see Dubbs, the Bible you buy off the shelf today is printed in the ROMAN TYPE FACE! The Bible of 1611 was printed in the GOTHIC TYPE FACE! There you have it, Dubbs. Changes in TYPE FACE there are a lot of your 150,000 "changes" also Dubbs in the bible of 1611 there are over 300 words that no longer mean what they did in 1611, more changes

here is the main thing Dubbs, that you don't mention, none of changes in the Bible affects any major doctrine what so ever...!!!

One more thing Dubbs the King James Bible has 1,589 pages and contains 791,328 words

the book of Mormon is only 531 pages and maybe a little over 300,000 words

and again none of the changes in the bible affects any major doctrine,

but some of the changes in the Book of Mormon affects major doctrine "LOL" now that's really funny!!! "LOL"

like:

The original text of Mosiah 21:28 reads:

And now Limhi was again filled with joy, on learning from the mouth of Ammon that king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; yea, and Ammon also did rejoice.

The problem, of course, is that king Benjamin was dead by this time (Mosiah 6:5). This reference was changed to 'Mosiah' in the 1837 and subsequent editions.

it appears that this was not the only place where such a change was made.

The original text of Ether 4:1 reads:

...and for this cause did king Benjamin keep them, that they should not come unto the world until after Christ shew himself unto his people.

Again, this was changed to 'Mosiah' in subsequent editions.
The fact that there are two such changes leads one to speculate that Smith may possibly have had a slightly different course for the narrative in mind.
Do you recall that the 116 lost pages included the story of king Benjamin.
It is possible that in this version king Benjamin lived longer.
Smith may have got confused between the two versions of the narrative, and inadvertently killed off his protagonist prematurely while rewriting the lost pages.

also the original text of I Nephi 12:18 reads:

...yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Jesus Christ, which is the Lamb of God...

The problem here is that the name 'Jesus Christ' was not revealed to the Nephites until II Nephi 10:3.

Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ--for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name--should come among the Jews...

In order to correct this contradiction, the text of I Nephi 12:18 was changed to read 'Messiah' instead of 'Jesus Christ'.

As an aside, this whole episode reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of the word 'Christ' on the part of Joseph Smith. 'Christ' and 'Messiah' are actually synonymous (see John 1:41), the former being derived from Greek, and the latter from Hebrew. 'Messiah' is used correctly in the Book of Mormon as a title, but 'Christ' is used incorrectly as a proper name, a fairly common mistake among those not fully acquainted with the etymology of the word. The statement in II Nephi 10:3 thus actually makes very little sense.

and there is a lot more Dubbs "LOL"

Now remember Dubbs what Joseph F.Smith, sixth president of the Mormon church, said:

Joseph did not render the writing on the gold plates into the English language in his own style of language as many people believe, but every word and letter was given to him by the gift and power of God.... The Lord caused each word spelled as it is in the book to appear on the stones in short sentences or words, and when Joseph had uttered the sentence or word before him and the scribe had written it properly, that sentence would disappear and another would appear. And if there was as a word wrongly written or even a letter incorrect, the writing on the stoned would remain there

(Journal of Oliver Huntington, Utah State Historical Society, p. 168,).

Now Dubbs do you see why others think the book of Mormon is such BS,, "LOL"

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
[b
And please, if you want to have a discussion with me, don't bring your opinion of the beliefs of Jaye and Sir John into it . . . it's annoying and only goes to prove you can't make an argument without pointing fingers at people because you think your faith is superior to theirs.

You were the one that jumped into apostateJ's question.

Okay, then please justify why you brought Jaye into it? Because you enjoy the whole idea of "tattling"? Are you ever going to grow up?

Because Jaye was agreeing with the "misinterpretation" that ApostateJ mentioned that rich people can't go to heaven.

You have GROSSLY misinterpreted and mischaracterized what I said.

I never said rich people can't go to heaven. I pointed out that according to the words of Jesus in the New Testament...it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Now...think about it for a moment...have you EVER seen a camel pass through the eye of a needle?


So Jaye, again, are there any exceptions or is this a hard fast rule that Jesus was teaching that NO Rich people can go to heaven?


Because when I asked this question last time you said..."That's what Jesus said"

It IS what Jesus said...according to Matthew, Mark, AND Luke.

What do you want me to say here Dubss? That Jesus DIDN'T say this?

When Jesus sat with His disciples in the courtyard of the Temple, they witnessed the Jews standing in line to cast their tithes into the Temple coffer.

They witnessed the wealthy, and the great, and the powerful casting small pouches containing gold or silver, or casting in rich jewels.

Then they witnessed a poor widow as she cast in two small coins.

And Jesus said, 'I say unto you, that this woman has given most of all...because she gave EVERYTHING she had...while these others only gave a small portion of their wealth.'

You claim to be a wealthy man Dubss. Do you content yourself with paying your 10% tithing, and call it good?

Or do you devote as much of your wealth as you can (without breaking your bank account and beggering your family) to alleviating the physical needs of the poor who are all around us?

If a rich man were to do everything in his power throughout his life, to assist, and to provide for the basic physical needs of those less fortunate brothers and sisters who we see every day on street corners...I would say that God would look into his heart, and his soul, and count him among the sheep.

It is a matter of obedience to God's will. It is a matter of whether a rich individual is only drawing close to the Lord with his mouth, while his heart is far, far away.

What did James say?

'If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well.

But if ye have respect to persona, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

SO SPEAK YE, AND SO DO, AS THY THAT SHALL BE JUEDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

FOR HE SHALL HAVE JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY FOR THEM WHICH HAVE SHOWN NO MERCY; AND MERCY REJOICETH AGAINST JUDGMENT.

WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT, MY BRETHREN, THOU A MAN SAY HE HATH FAITH, AND HAVE NOT WORKS? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?

IF A BROTHER OR SISTER BE NAKED, AND DESTITUTE OF DAILY FOOD, AND ONE OF YOU SAY UNTO THEM, DEPART IN PEACE, BE YE WARMED AND FILLED; NOTWITHSTANDING YE HAVE NOT GIVEN THEM THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE NEEDFUL TO THE BODY; WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT?'

So long as there are people among us who don't have enough to eat, who are homeless, living on the streets, or under bridges, who wear filthy and tattered clothing...it is evident that we as Christians are failing in truly striving to obey Christ's commandment to provide for the physical needs...and not only the spiritual needs of our brothers and sisters.


Wren (surprisingly) explained well the explanation of that verse, it is NOT a hard fast rule that NEVER can a rich man go to heaven.

Or is that what you really believe?

You have GROSSLY misinterpreted and mischaracterized what I said.

I never said rich people can't go to heaven. I pointed out that according to the words of Jesus in the New Testament...it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


I asked you earlier if it was a hard fast rule, you said...

"That's what Jesus said"


Now your back peddeling. typical jaye.

Not back peddling at all Kent.

And what I said was the truth. It WAS EXACTLY what Jesus said.

His disciples, amazed asked...'Who then can be saved?

And Jesus said, 'With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible'.

And Peter asked...'Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore'?

And Jesus said...'Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'

A rich man has his reward already in this mortal life. He has his palatial home(s), all the finest furnishings, his expensive automobiles, his boat, his R.V.'s, his A.T.V.'s, his expensive silk suits, his membership in exclusive Country Clubs, etc.etc.

But if he wishes further reward in his eternal life...it depends largely upon whether he has utilized his wealth to the best of it's advantage and his efforts to alleviate the needs of God's children on earth.

With God...all things are possible.

And even a rich man could find himself numbered with the sheep.


This is a back pedal, because when I asked you if it was a hard fast rule, you said that's what Jesus said, now your saying it depends on how he handled his wealth, which is what I have been saying for days, at least you came around and understood the concept.

1. I have not back-pedaled.

2. Jesus DID say it.

3. I have never said that it is impossible for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I have only quoted what Jesus had to say about it...and what He said was that 'it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.'

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Kent...you have not yet addressed the FACT that the phrase...'getting into bed with' is usually a derogatory phrase.

'Getting into bed with the mob'...'getting into bed with the Syndicate'...'getting into bed with terrorists'...or in a political meaning...'getting into bed with special interest groups'.

It is NOT a complimentary terminology.


So if your say to your kids, time for Bed, go get in bed kids, it's derogatory?

Always? No excpetions?


you are delusional.

You are splitting hairs and arguing semantics.

This has nothing to do with the semantics or meanings of the phrase you used.


Silly illogical logic.

Interesting remark.

But that's an oxymoron. The words cancel each other out.

But that is par for the course...because you are an ox...AND a moron.

Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Betzz wrote:
[b
And please, if you want to have a discussion with me, don't bring your opinion of the beliefs of Jaye and Sir John into it . . . it's annoying and only goes to prove you can't make an argument without pointing fingers at people because you think your faith is superior to theirs.

You were the one that jumped into apostateJ's question.

Okay, then please justify why you brought Jaye into it? Because you enjoy the whole idea of "tattling"? Are you ever going to grow up?

Because Jaye was agreeing with the "misinterpretation" that ApostateJ mentioned that rich people can't go to heaven.

You have GROSSLY misinterpreted and mischaracterized what I said.

I never said rich people can't go to heaven. I pointed out that according to the words of Jesus in the New Testament...it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Now...think about it for a moment...have you EVER seen a camel pass through the eye of a needle?


So Jaye, again, are there any exceptions or is this a hard fast rule that Jesus was teaching that NO Rich people can go to heaven?


Because when I asked this question last time you said..."That's what Jesus said"

It IS what Jesus said...according to Matthew, Mark, AND Luke.

What do you want me to say here Dubss? That Jesus DIDN'T say this?

When Jesus sat with His disciples in the courtyard of the Temple, they witnessed the Jews standing in line to cast their tithes into the Temple coffer.

They witnessed the wealthy, and the great, and the powerful casting small pouches containing gold or silver, or casting in rich jewels.

Then they witnessed a poor widow as she cast in two small coins.

And Jesus said, 'I say unto you, that this woman has given most of all...because she gave EVERYTHING she had...while these others only gave a small portion of their wealth.'

You claim to be a wealthy man Dubss. Do you content yourself with paying your 10% tithing, and call it good?

Or do you devote as much of your wealth as you can (without breaking your bank account and beggering your family) to alleviating the physical needs of the poor who are all around us?

If a rich man were to do everything in his power throughout his life, to assist, and to provide for the basic physical needs of those less fortunate brothers and sisters who we see every day on street corners...I would say that God would look into his heart, and his soul, and count him among the sheep.

It is a matter of obedience to God's will. It is a matter of whether a rich individual is only drawing close to the Lord with his mouth, while his heart is far, far away.

What did James say?

'If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well.

But if ye have respect to persona, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

SO SPEAK YE, AND SO DO, AS THY THAT SHALL BE JUEDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.

FOR HE SHALL HAVE JUDGMENT WITHOUT MERCY FOR THEM WHICH HAVE SHOWN NO MERCY; AND MERCY REJOICETH AGAINST JUDGMENT.

WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT, MY BRETHREN, THOU A MAN SAY HE HATH FAITH, AND HAVE NOT WORKS? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?

IF A BROTHER OR SISTER BE NAKED, AND DESTITUTE OF DAILY FOOD, AND ONE OF YOU SAY UNTO THEM, DEPART IN PEACE, BE YE WARMED AND FILLED; NOTWITHSTANDING YE HAVE NOT GIVEN THEM THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE NEEDFUL TO THE BODY; WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT?'

So long as there are people among us who don't have enough to eat, who are homeless, living on the streets, or under bridges, who wear filthy and tattered clothing...it is evident that we as Christians are failing in truly striving to obey Christ's commandment to provide for the physical needs...and not only the spiritual needs of our brothers and sisters.


Wren (surprisingly) explained well the explanation of that verse, it is NOT a hard fast rule that NEVER can a rich man go to heaven.

Or is that what you really believe?

You have GROSSLY misinterpreted and mischaracterized what I said.

I never said rich people can't go to heaven. I pointed out that according to the words of Jesus in the New Testament...it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


I asked you earlier if it was a hard fast rule, you said...

"That's what Jesus said"


Now your back peddeling. typical jaye.

Not back peddling at all Kent.

And what I said was the truth. It WAS EXACTLY what Jesus said.

His disciples, amazed asked...'Who then can be saved?

And Jesus said, 'With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible'.

And Peter asked...'Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore'?

And Jesus said...'Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'

A rich man has his reward already in this mortal life. He has his palatial home(s), all the finest furnishings, his expensive automobiles, his boat, his R.V.'s, his A.T.V.'s, his expensive silk suits, his membership in exclusive Country Clubs, etc.etc.

But if he wishes further reward in his eternal life...it depends largely upon whether he has utilized his wealth to the best of it's advantage and his efforts to alleviate the needs of God's children on earth.

With God...all things are possible.

And even a rich man could find himself numbered with the sheep.


This is a back pedal, because when I asked you if it was a hard fast rule, you said that's what Jesus said, now your saying it depends on how he handled his wealth, which is what I have been saying for days, at least you came around and understood the concept.

1. I have not back-pedaled.

2. Jesus DID say it.

3. I have never said that it is impossible for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I have only quoted what Jesus had to say about it...and what He said was that 'it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.'

LOOK IT UP DUBBS:

ST MARK 10:25
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
[

Jeffrey Dahmer served his time at the Columbia Correctional Institution in Portage, Wisconsin, where he ultimately declared himself a born-again Christian. This conversion occurred after viewing evangelical material sent to him by his father. A local preacher, Roy Ratcliff, met with Dahmer and agreed to baptize him.

A point to remember...simply declaring oneself to be a born again Christian, and fulfilling the ritual ordinance of baptism does not a Christian make.
.

Well according to Wren and his cronies, Dahmer is a saved man then. Hey Wren, you'll be in Heaven with the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer

I do not believe that Wren would consider Jeffrey Dahmer to be a saved man.