Decaf wrote:
BBBB wrote:
I was taught only members doing 3 things will be ex-communicated, re: deny the Holy Spirit, murder, and commit to adultery. The concerned guy did not seem to break any of the above 3.

But remember he did say that the decision was best for both parties, and said he harbors no ill feelings toward the church court.

Sounds like an amicable separation to me.Denying the Holy Spirit -
I guess there are two ways
both involve misjudgement

(1) Testifying there is a God when the Holy Spirit has not testified it outright to you. -sin of ignorance

(2) Testifying there is no God, no miracle, when the Holy Spirit testifies it outright to you. -sin of hate

(3) ?

I thought denying the H.G. could only happen after one has their c.& E. if I'm wrong (I'm not) my bad.

Lovie wrote:
I thought denying the H.G. could only happen after one has their c.& E. if I'm wrong (I'm not) my bad.;yeah, in mormon talk, I guess. But that, so the legend goes, will put you into O.D. never to return again.

Denying the Holy Spirit in the sense I mean isn't nearly so serious. What would it mean to you?

First off, Lovie, the spirit can describe the state of the soul and mind...even the body: A spirited soul, full of "hello"s and handshakes; A good spirit.

A poor spirit: He was in poor spirits after his girlfriend left with another man.

The Holy Spirit would, to me, mean that which reveals the reality of a matter or situation. Is this real? Is that real? We can physically touch it? Can we "touch" it only with our mind.

If we are not in tune with the Holy Spirit in this regard, the Spirit of what-is-real, (tangible), then we may see hallucinations, think delusionally, have paranoias, that sort of thing.

Science has investigated and mined far into this religious concept, gracing us with modern psychology, psychiatry, psyche medicines...so much more.

So, to be without the Holy Spirit, at least in some degree, is to be physically ill (as mental illnesses are physical in nature). That is some of what the definition means to me.

WaynesWorld wrote:
First off, Lovie, the spirit can describe the state of the soul and mind...even the body: A spirited soul, full of "hello"s and handshakes; A good spirit.

A poor spirit: He was in poor spirits after his girlfriend left with another man.

The Holy Spirit would, to me, mean that which reveals the reality of a matter or situation. Is this real? Is that real? We can physically touch it? Can we "touch" it only with our mind.

If we are not in tune with the Holy Spirit in this regard, the Spirit of what-is-real, (tangible), then we may see hallucinations, think delusionally, have paranoias, that sort of thing.

Science has investigated and mined far into this religious concept, gracing us with modern psychology, psychiatry, psyche medicines...so much more.

So, to be without the Holy Spirit, at least in some degree, is to be physically ill (as mental illnesses are physical in nature). That is some of what the definition means to me.

To me, being without the Holy Spirit means I'm not living according to what I know is right. Maybe I'm not praying as often as I should. . .I'm not reading the scriptures with a proper spirit. . .I'm contentious or snippy towards people around me. . .I don't have a good attitude when I attend my church meetings or my mind is wandering during the meetings. . .I've received promptings and then didn't act on them. . .See where I'm going with this? I agree with you, WW, that without the Holy Ghost prompting and guiding me, I DO feel unwell both spiritually and physically. The Holy Ghost will not reside with us if the "accommodations" we provide for him are not welcoming. Just my personal experience.

Joseph Smith, said:
All sins shall be forgiven, except the sin against the Holy Ghost; for Jesus will save all except the sons of perdition. What must a man do to commit the unpardonable sin? He must receive the Holy Ghost, have the heavens opened unto him, and know God, and then sin against him. After a man has sinned against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for him. He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it. ("The King Follett Sermon," Ensign May 1971)

See sounds like the Big C&E to me. I Love the King Follett Sermon!

oh notice he said SONS of perdition! Not daughters, dose one need to hold the presthood to become a SON of predition???