Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:

But neither me, you, OR the Church can prove that God considers the Book of Mormon to be of higher import than the Bible...and that overrules individual belief.



And you can't prove that it thinks the bible is above any other.


But it says alot when they call one the "keystone" of our religion.

It says more when your apostles call the Bible the foundation of the latter day gospel. A keystone rests on the foundation. Capiche, Guiuseppe?

No, a Keystone rests in a doorway archway, a Cornerstone rests on the foundation dar dar.

Nope, Gino, everything (cornerstone, keystone, your boots with you in them) rests on the foundation, the Bible. As Jaye has proven conclusively and without any refutation from you, you are out of step with the LDS leadership.

Get in step, podjo.


Wrong profesor dumby,

Keystone...
the wedge-shaped piece at the summit of an arch, regarded as holding the other pieces in place. Typically a doorway.

Being stubborn doesn't change the truth.

Your apostles are quoted as saying the [b]foundation of Mormonism rests on the Bible.

Your denial of that fact shows that you are out of step with your priesthood leadership. You are expressing it publicly. You are a LDS heretic.

I counsel you to get in step.


They also say the keystone is the Book of Mormon, which without a keystone something tumbles, without a foundation something also tumbles, so one is no more important than the other, equal.

At least you are trying to analyze, and that's a good thing, Dubbs/Raymond. However, you are wrong on this.

A foundation can stand without a keystone (look at any cement foundation sitting by itself). A keystone cannot exist without a foundation.

No, they are certainly unequal, with the foundation the superior.

First off, they don't say foundation, so your point is moot, go back and look at Jaye's quote, it does not say foundation.

Second off, Christ is the foundation. you are wrong, typical, but wrong.

Here is what Gordon B.Hinckley had to say about it in an Ensign article from:

Ensign » 1984 » November
The Cornerstones of Our Faith

"We have basic cornerstones on which this great latter-day church has been established by the Lord and built, “fitly framed together.” They are absolutely fundamental to this work, the very foundation, anchors on which it stands. I should like to speak briefly of these four essential cornerstones which anchor The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I mention first the chief cornerstone, whom we recognize and honor as the Lord Jesus Christ. The second is the vision given the Prophet Joseph Smith when the Father and the Son appeared to him. The third is the Book of Mormon, which speaks as a voice from the dust with the words of ancient prophets declaring the divinity and reality of the Savior of mankind. The fourth is the priesthood with all of its powers and authority, whereby men act in the name of God in administering the affairs of his kingdom."

According to President Hinckley...Jesus Christ is the CHIEF cornerstone.


Notice he doesn't mention the Bible?

DOH! Didn't think of that before posting that did you?

Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs why is it even when you are shown real true fact you dismiss them like what Joseph F.Smith, sixth president of the Mormon church, said:

Joseph did not render the writing on the gold plates into the English language in his own style of language as many people believe, but every word and letter was given to him by the gift and power of God.... The Lord caused each word spelled as it is in the book to appear on the stones in short sentences or words, and when Joseph had uttered the sentence or word before him and the scribe had written it properly, that sentence would disappear and another would appear. And if there was as a word wrongly written or even a letter incorrect, the writing on the stoned would remain there

(Journal of Oliver Huntington, Utah State Historical Society, p. 168,).

You even admit that there are over 4,000 mistakes in the book of Mormon even though if it was giving by God to Joseph Smith as said there should be none..

Dubbs you can't make facts untrue by screeming Anti "LOL"


When men are involved, mistakes are made, Joseph didn't tell the scribes how to spell the words as they came from the Urim and Thumum or the seer stones, he didn't sit there and say here's how you spell this word Oliver or Emma.


He also didn't have stand and watch as the printer made some errors also, that needed to later be corrected, big whoop. Doesn't make it not the word of God. Which it is.

Just Reading wrote:
WaynesWorld wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye and JR clearly reveals that all Dubbs has is his belief: no facts, no evidence, no nothing. Only what he believes. And we have seen that change from time to time.

Ol' flip flop, flip flop, FLIPPETY FLOP Dubss. What a joke and as several active members have told me, what a PR disaster for the LDS church to have him tearing down the church's standards here.Oh get real, Wren!

Without Dubbs, there'd be no forum conversations like what goes on now.
He is the nucleus... all others post about him and to him. Like iron filings in a magnetic field, you are drawn to him and can not resist in responding.

You guys are very much entertained in "bickering" with him. It's fun..and it's fun to be right especially when you can be condescending at the same time.

Have some good things to say about ol' Dubbs.
After all, he's the best person here to keep the discussions of the type you like going on and on and on and on.

Hmmm good things to say about Dubbs Hmmm let's see

OH I got it, he doesn't live in Utah..!! no that's not it,

OH OH his parents haven't killed him....

NO that not it either

OH Maybe this is it, I think he has stopped calling his wife a slut..!!!

No that's not it either

Wait he's the best thing that's happend to the Anti-Mormons

OH no wait Wren said that already

I FOUND IT, I FOUND IT...!!!

It was so easy I should have guessed it right away..!!!

DUBBS IS CHEAP ENTERTAINMENT...

YEP THAT IT

there I said something nice about Dubbs Big, you came through! .

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubss said:

"Uhhhhh, I'll take a guy with a PHD over your redneck self."
*************************************************************

Interesting...yet you would take the word of a man who had very little formal education, save for what his mother had taught him from the Bible.

Joseph Smith didn't have a PhD. And being the son of a poor farmer, who found it necessary to chop wood for neighboring farms, or work as hired hands with his brother to help the family make ends meet...he was more or less of a redneck himself.

Yet many of the people who have researched into the LDS Church and found it wanting were highly educated individuals, and not rednecks by any stretch of the imagination.

Interesting.



Apples and celery,

One is the spirit of God restoring the church to it's fulness in the later days.

Another is those who want to tear down the church by making things up about it. And scholars showing them their wrong, but they won't listen.And in between are PHds handing out psychiatric pills to the extremists of both sides.

WaynesWorld wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
WaynesWorld wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye and JR clearly reveals that all Dubbs has is his belief: no facts, no evidence, no nothing. Only what he believes. And we have seen that change from time to time.

Ol' flip flop, flip flop, FLIPPETY FLOP Dubss. What a joke and as several active members have told me, what a PR disaster for the LDS church to have him tearing down the church's standards here.Oh get real, Wren!

Without Dubbs, there'd be no forum conversations like what goes on now.
He is the nucleus... all others post about him and to him. Like iron filings in a magnetic field, you are drawn to him and can not resist in responding.

You guys are very much entertained in "bickering" with him. It's fun..and it's fun to be right especially when you can be condescending at the same time.

Have some good things to say about ol' Dubbs.
After all, he's the best person here to keep the discussions of the type you like going on and on and on and on.

Hmmm good things to say about Dubbs Hmmm let's see

OH I got it, he doesn't live in Utah..!! no that's not it,

OH OH his parents haven't killed him....

NO that not it either

OH Maybe this is it, I think he has stopped calling his wife a slut..!!!

No that's not it either

Wait he's the best thing that's happend to the Anti-Mormons

OH no wait Wren said that already

I FOUND IT, I FOUND IT...!!!

It was so easy I should have guessed it right away..!!!

DUBBS IS CHEAP ENTERTAINMENT...

YEP THAT IT

there I said something nice about Dubbs I knew you had it in you.

JR, does seem to pin the whole "Best/Worst of Dubbsssss" into a tiny nutshell....

Good for a laugh.....

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubss said:

"Uhhhhh, I'll take a guy with a PHD over your redneck self."
*************************************************************

Interesting...yet you would take the word of a man who had very little formal education, save for what his mother had taught him from the Bible.

Joseph Smith didn't have a PhD. And being the son of a poor farmer, who found it necessary to chop wood for neighboring farms, or work as hired hands with his brother to help the family make ends meet...he was more or less of a redneck himself.

Yet many of the people who have researched into the LDS Church and found it wanting were highly educated individuals, and not rednecks by any stretch of the imagination.

Interesting.



Apples and celery,

One is the spirit of God restoring the church to it's fulness in the later days.

Another is those who want to tear down the church by making things up about it. And scholars showing them their wrong, but they won't listen.

Not really. All human institutions (and that is what the LDS church is after all) are imperfect, fallible, and interested in preserving themselves. Thus, for over a 100 years the LDS church suppressed its history, buying and hiding documents, in order to try to improve its horrific blood-thirsty immage.

Folks like the Tanner (remember Ol Flip Flop was unable to show one example of "forging" of documents) have done mankind a great blessing by being the beginning of a movement that has released hundreds of thousands of original Mormon documents that had not really seen the light of day before.

One great example is the Journal of Discourses, approved the church leadership for decades (read the coverpiece of each of the journals), in which Brigham Young taught Blood Atonement and Adam-God.