An interesting article in the New York Times, TODAY. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E03E4DC1239F93AA15751C0A9669C8B63

High Infant Mortality Rates In Brooklyn Mystify Experts
There seems to be no clear answer to why the same neighborhoods stand out year after year, and why some would buck the downward trends. Experts seem to agree that even when the resources exist -- prenatal care at low cost, hospitals willing to deliver babies, government-subsidized infant formula and food -- it is still profoundly difficult to get many pregnant women through the doors.

"It is a perplexing question," said Dr. Katherine La Guardia, who runs the ambulatory obstetrics and gynecology clinic at Brookdale University Hospital and Medical Center in Brownsville. "A huge amount of effort has gone into improving prenatal care, but we still don't know how one reaches the most unreachable."

truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
However, I think McCain is correct about Obama's desire for a bigger government. Obama has some very socialist leanings and I think he will push for a more Socialist government. And that scares the hell out of me.
Yeah, I sure pity all those countries (and boy, are there a lot) who have universal health care and also have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do.

I guess they don't know how bad off they really are.

Hmm, maybe you would prefer to live there then if they are so much better.
Naw, I prefer to live here and be part of the change. Thanks for the thought, though.

Two posts and you have avoided the issue. So why do these countries (Japan, Canada, Sweden, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Italy, Great Britain, Norway, Denmark, Greece, Germany to name a few) with universal health care have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do?

Go ahead, tell us why it is? Surely conservative talk radio has an answer, don't they?

Again, I don't bother listening to conservative talk radio. Care to bring it up again?

But to your question about mortality rates, I don't know the answer. Do you? I suppose you can show that it is a direct result of their socialized health care then?

JLD wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
However, I think McCain is correct about Obama's desire for a bigger government. Obama has some very socialist leanings and I think he will push for a more Socialist government. And that scares the hell out of me.
Yeah, I sure pity all those countries (and boy, are there a lot) who have universal health care and also have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do.

I guess they don't know how bad off they really are.

Hmm, maybe you would prefer to live there then if they are so much better.
Naw, I prefer to live here and be part of the change. Thanks for the thought, though.

Two posts and you have avoided the issue. So why do these countries (Japan, Canada, Sweden, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Italy, Great Britain, Norway, Denmark, Greece, Germany to name a few) with universal health care have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do?

Go ahead, tell us why it is? Surely conservative talk radio has an answer, don't they?

Again, I don't bother listening to conservative talk radio. Care to bring it up again?

But to your question about mortality rates, I don't know the answer. Do you? I suppose you can show that it is a direct result of their socialized health care then?

Apparently it is:
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/04/health_care_the.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/02/business/fi-healthspend2
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070613_921562.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/18/business/18leonhardt.html
http://www.bcbs.com/news/national/europe-healthier-than-u-s.html

I was never for socialized medicine, but it does seem to work better. They pay less for better care. I look at my premiums, copays, coinsurance, deductible, etc. and cannot figure out how a lower income family could afford to ever see a doctor. Europe has lower blood pressure, more facetime with doctors, and some countries have higher life expectancies. Providing care for all costs less overall, creates less dependency on emergency rooms, and ensures people get adequate care instead of waiting for the crisis point.

unaffiliated_person wrote:
JLD wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
However, I think McCain is correct about Obama's desire for a bigger government. Obama has some very socialist leanings and I think he will push for a more Socialist government. And that scares the hell out of me.
Yeah, I sure pity all those countries (and boy, are there a lot) who have universal health care and also have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do.

I guess they don't know how bad off they really are.

Hmm, maybe you would prefer to live there then if they are so much better.
Naw, I prefer to live here and be part of the change. Thanks for the thought, though.

Two posts and you have avoided the issue. So why do these countries (Japan, Canada, Sweden, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Italy, Great Britain, Norway, Denmark, Greece, Germany to name a few) with universal health care have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do?

Go ahead, tell us why it is? Surely conservative talk radio has an answer, don't they?

Again, I don't bother listening to conservative talk radio. Care to bring it up again?

But to your question about mortality rates, I don't know the answer. Do you? I suppose you can show that it is a direct result of their socialized health care then?

Apparently it is:
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/04/health_care_the.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/02/business/fi-healthspend2
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070613_921562.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/18/business/18leonhardt.html
http://www.bcbs.com/news/national/europe-healthier-than-u-s.html

I was never for socialized medicine, but it does seem to work better. They pay less for better care. I look at my premiums, copays, coinsurance, deductible, etc. and cannot figure out how a lower income family could afford to ever see a doctor. Europe has lower blood pressure, more facetime with doctors, and some countries have higher life expectancies. Providing care for all costs less overall, creates less dependency on emergency rooms, and ensures people get adequate care instead of waiting for the crisis point.
And there is your answer, JLD. Thanks, UP.

I can sum it up in one major concept, though. Better access, and they tend to focus on preventative medicine more. Here, people with no insurance at all often do not go to the emergency room until what was once a small problem has become a big problem, if they even go at all. Universal health care operates on the premise that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure", and everyone is covered, so problems tend to be addressed earlier. How else do you explain it? Coincidence?

No ones going to convince Thomas and JLD, however, because they are Republicans. Well, maybe just one Republican.

truthhurts wrote:
unaffiliated_person wrote:
JLD wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
truthhurts wrote:
JLD wrote:
However, I think McCain is correct about Obama's desire for a bigger government. Obama has some very socialist leanings and I think he will push for a more Socialist government. And that scares the hell out of me.
Yeah, I sure pity all those countries (and boy, are there a lot) who have universal health care and also have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do.

I guess they don't know how bad off they really are.

Hmm, maybe you would prefer to live there then if they are so much better.
Naw, I prefer to live here and be part of the change. Thanks for the thought, though.

Two posts and you have avoided the issue. So why do these countries (Japan, Canada, Sweden, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Italy, Great Britain, Norway, Denmark, Greece, Germany to name a few) with universal health care have lower infant mortalities and longer life expectancies than we do?

Go ahead, tell us why it is? Surely conservative talk radio has an answer, don't they?

Again, I don't bother listening to conservative talk radio. Care to bring it up again?

But to your question about mortality rates, I don't know the answer. Do you? I suppose you can show that it is a direct result of their socialized health care then?

Apparently it is:
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/04/health_care_the.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/02/business/fi-healthspend2
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070613_921562.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/18/business/18leonhardt.html
http://www.bcbs.com/news/national/europe-healthier-than-u-s.html

I was never for socialized medicine, but it does seem to work better. They pay less for better care. I look at my premiums, copays, coinsurance, deductible, etc. and cannot figure out how a lower income family could afford to ever see a doctor. Europe has lower blood pressure, more facetime with doctors, and some countries have higher life expectancies. Providing care for all costs less overall, creates less dependency on emergency rooms, and ensures people get adequate care instead of waiting for the crisis point.
And there is your answer, JLD. Thanks, UP.

I can sum it up in one major concept, though. Better access, and they tend to focus on preventative medicine more. Here, people with no insurance at all often do not go to the emergency room until what was once a small problem has become a big problem, if they even go at all. Universal health care operates on the premise that "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure", and everyone is covered, so problems tend to be addressed earlier. How else do you explain it? Coincidence?

No ones going to convince Thomas and JLD, however, because they are Republicans. Well, maybe just one Republican.

You need to lay off the grain alcohol, it clouds your thinking. I never said anything, pro or con, about socialized medicine. You said that free healthcare is the reason for lower infant mortality rates. Prove it. I posted an article from the New York Times TODAY, that states that the "experts" don't know why the infant mortality rates in Brooklyn are so high. Given the fact that they provide free healthcare, food and infant formula to pregnant women and woman with newborns and children.

Or is this just another one your "opinions"?

This is also interesting. The US did not even make it into the top 10 (Canada is number 10). The real question is why are people healthier and happier in Europe versus here?
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2006/gb20061011_072596.htm