Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
[b], but I am glad you made the admission they make errors and mistakes.

I've been saying their fallible from day one, one of the first posts I made was the below, course how would you know this, you don't read posts, but just concentrate on smary comments, and making comments with no proof.

Your latest two was your claim that Jeff Lindsay uses misinformation you couldn't prove, and that the church changed the orginal D&C as far as Moroni being the person Joseph spoke with. Typical angry inch.

Well here Dubbs I found it in the 1851 ed. of Pearl of Great Price...!!!




First off, the 1835 edition is the one that we need to see to show idjits like yourself what was orginally said. Not the 1851 edition.

and the Pearl of Great Price has the Books of Moses and Abraham, it doesn't even mention Joseph's vision.

Not sure where you got this, but it's about as accurate as a Bigdaddy legal document.


"LOL" what no "Big Whoop" or you got that from an anti site "LOL"


I know this is a complex issue for the mentally slow, so let me slow it down for you.


The 1835 edition of the D&C (not the Pearl of Great price) said that "moroni" was the one who visited Joseph.


This is what I was looking for to show Wren that the Millinium start mistake was precluded by the LDS scripture clarifying.

So.... for you to post a article from the 1850 edition of the Pearl of Great price, is not even a scripture that mentions Joseph's story of the visitation from Moroni, so not sure what this supposed post is even referencing.

I know that flew right over your head, but hey, I try to help the slow of mind.

To be honest Dubbs, I have been try to find out where the 1835 edition of the D&C got into this discussion,

because what I said was that the Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, a word-for-word account of the original 1838 account dictated by Joseph Smith and transcribed by James Mulholland.
it notes how "Nephi" rather than "Moroni" was the original word written and that Nephi was the original name published in the 1851 edition of the Pearl of Great Price and "in the original publication of the history in the Times and Seasons at Nauvoo...and the Millennial Star"

and I'm not sure how the D&C got twisted in there...

But it did not start by a newspaper like you said Dubbs this is how it started:

on May 2, 1838, a few months before Smith's statement in Elders' Journal, Smith began dictating a church history that included a detailed account of his visits from the angel (Smith 1838a, p. 7).

Smith identified the angel as "Nephi", which is the name of the Book of Mormon's first narrator (Smith 1838a, p. 5).

Smith's 1838 identification as "Nephi" was repeated when the 1838 history was published in 1842 in Times and Seasons, which Smith edited himself (Smith 1842, p. 753),

and in Millennial Star (Pratt 1842, p. 53).

In the latter, an editorial referred to the 1823 vision and praised "the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi" (1842, p. 71).

After Smith's death, the identification as "Nephi" was repeated when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints published its first edition of the Pearl of Great Price (Richards 1851, p. 41).

It was also repeated in 1853 when Smith's mother Lucy Mack Smith published a history of her son (Smith 1853, p. 79).

As a further complication, Mary Whitmer, mother to one of the Three Witnesses and four of the Eight Witnesses, said she had a vision of the golden plates, shown to her by an angel, whom she always called "Brother Nephi" (Whitmer 1888, p. 621).

Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
[b], but I am glad you made the admission they make errors and mistakes.

I've been saying their fallible from day one, one of the first posts I made was the below, course how would you know this, you don't read posts, but just concentrate on smary comments, and making comments with no proof.

Your latest two was your claim that Jeff Lindsay uses misinformation you couldn't prove, and that the church changed the orginal D&C as far as Moroni being the person Joseph spoke with. Typical angry inch.

Well here Dubbs I found it in the 1851 ed. of Pearl of Great Price...!!!




First off, the 1835 edition is the one that we need to see to show idjits like yourself what was orginally said. Not the 1851 edition.

and the Pearl of Great Price has the Books of Moses and Abraham, it doesn't even mention Joseph's vision.

Not sure where you got this, but it's about as accurate as a Bigdaddy legal document.


"LOL" what no "Big Whoop" or you got that from an anti site "LOL"


I know this is a complex issue for the mentally slow, so let me slow it down for you.


The 1835 edition of the D&C (not the Pearl of Great price) said that "moroni" was the one who visited Joseph.


This is what I was looking for to show Wren that the Millinium start mistake was precluded by the LDS scripture clarifying.

So.... for you to post a article from the 1850 edition of the Pearl of Great price, is not even a scripture that mentions Joseph's story of the visitation from Moroni, so not sure what this supposed post is even referencing.

I know that flew right over your head, but hey, I try to help the slow of mind.

To be honest Dubbs, I have been try to find out where the 1835 edition of the D&C got into this discussion,

because what I said was that the Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, a word-for-word account of the original 1838 account dictated by Joseph Smith and transcribed by James Mulholland.
it notes how "Nephi" rather than "Moroni" was the original word written and that Nephi was the original name published in the 1851 edition of the Pearl of Great Price and "in the original publication of the history in the Times and Seasons at Nauvoo...and the Millennial Star"

and I'm not sure how the D&C got twisted in there...

But it did not start by a newspaper like you said Dubbs this is how it started:

on May 2, 1838, a few months before Smith's statement in Elders' Journal, Smith began dictating a church history that included a detailed account of his visits from the angel (Smith 1838a, p. 7).

Smith identified the angel as "Nephi", which is the name of the Book of Mormon's first narrator (Smith 1838a, p. 5).

Smith's 1838 identification as "Nephi" was repeated when the 1838 history was published in 1842 in Times and Seasons, which Smith edited himself (Smith 1842, p. 753),

and in Millennial Star (Pratt 1842, p. 53).

In the latter, an editorial referred to the 1823 vision and praised "the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi" (1842, p. 71).

After Smith's death, the identification as "Nephi" was repeated when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints published its first edition of the Pearl of Great Price (Richards 1851, p. 41).

It was also repeated in 1853 when Smith's mother Lucy Mack Smith published a history of her son (Smith 1853, p. 79).

As a further complication, Mary Whitmer, mother to one of the Three Witnesses and four of the Eight Witnesses, said she had a vision of the golden plates, shown to her by an angel, whom she always called "Brother Nephi" (Whitmer 1888, p. 621).

There was confusion, and Joseph wrote two versions of the journal, one with Nephi and one with Moroni, the Millinium star picked up the one with Nephi, and that was printed in England also, so it caused confusion for some time. But the D&C 1830 edition through 1835 ediction already said MORONI. So the confusion should have been clarified, but it wasn't, if they would have looked at the scriptures, they would have saw the mistake, it wasn't caught for some time.

The D&C 1830- 1835 edition clarifies is that it was written before the 1842 Millinium star article, and it shows clearly Joseph said "Moroni" as does many other references, of which I posted many in my post a few days ago.

Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
, but I am glad you made the admission they make errors and mistakes.

I've been saying their fallible from day one, one of the first posts I made was the below, course how would you know this, you don't read posts, but just concentrate on smary comments, and making comments with no proof.

Your latest two was your claim that Jeff Lindsay uses misinformation you couldn't prove, and that the church changed the orginal D&C as far as Moroni being the person Joseph spoke with. Typical angry inch.

Well here Dubbs I found it in the 1851 ed. of Pearl of Great Price...!!!




First off, the 1835 edition is the one that we need to see to show idjits like yourself what was orginally said. Not the 1851 edition.

and the Pearl of Great Price has the Books of Moses and Abraham, it doesn't even mention Joseph's vision.

Not sure where you got this, but it's about as accurate as a Bigdaddy legal document.


"LOL" what no "Big Whoop" or you got that from an anti site "LOL"


I know this is a complex issue for the mentally slow, so let me slow it down for you.


The 1835 edition of the D&C (not the Pearl of Great price) said that "moroni" was the one who visited Joseph.


This is what I was looking for to show Wren that the Millinium start mistake was precluded by the LDS scripture clarifying.

So.... for you to post a article from the 1850 edition of the Pearl of Great price, is not even a scripture that mentions Joseph's story of the visitation from Moroni, so not sure what this supposed post is even referencing.

I know that flew right over your head, but hey, I try to help the slow of mind.

To be honest Dubbs, I have been try to find out where the 1835 edition of the D&C got into this discussion,

because what I said was that the Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, a word-for-word account of the original 1838 account dictated by Joseph Smith and transcribed by James Mulholland.
it notes how "Nephi" rather than "Moroni" was the original word written and that Nephi was the original name published in the 1851 edition of the Pearl of Great Price and "in the original publication of the history in the Times and Seasons at Nauvoo...and the Millennial Star"

and I'm not sure how the D&C got twisted in there...

But it did not start by a newspaper like you said Dubbs this is how it started:

on May 2, 1838, a few months before Smith's statement in Elders' Journal, Smith began dictating a church history that included a detailed account of his visits from the angel (Smith 1838a, p. 7).

Smith identified the angel as "Nephi", which is the name of the Book of Mormon's first narrator (Smith 1838a, p. 5).

Smith's 1838 identification as "Nephi" was repeated when the 1838 history was published in 1842 in Times and Seasons, which Smith edited himself (Smith 1842, p. 753),

and in Millennial Star (Pratt 1842, p. 53).

In the latter, an editorial referred to the 1823 vision and praised "the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi" (1842, p. 71).

After Smith's death, the identification as "Nephi" was repeated when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints published its first edition of the Pearl of Great Price (Richards 1851, p. 41).

It was also repeated in 1853 when Smith's mother Lucy Mack Smith published a history of her son (Smith 1853, p. 79).

As a further complication, Mary Whitmer, mother to one of the Three Witnesses and four of the Eight Witnesses, said she had a vision of the golden plates, shown to her by an angel, whom she always called "Brother Nephi" (Whitmer 1888, p. 621).


Your infomration you are getting is inaccurate, the Millinium star was the first of any report that said mistakingly "Nephi" this was perpetuated in a few other articles and even into the church history for a few years.

But the way the D&C 1835 edition clarifies is that it was written before the 1836 Millinium star article, and it shows clearly Joseph said "Moroni" as does many other references, of which I posted many in my post a few days ago.

Post your referenc and webpage to this "Journal" by Joseph Smith that says "Nephi" Because it is not accurte information, typical

Why do you not listen or comprehend what is written Dubbs

I said that in his first handwritten history, Joseph Smith seems to have been unaware of the name of the angel who appeared to him. He merely stated that it was 'an angel of the Lord.'

"In 1835, however, Smith identified the celestial visitor as 'Moroni' and seemed to hold to this view for three years until 1838 when the account was dictated by Joseph Smith and transcribed by James Mulholland.

that was May 2, 1838 Dubbs

Then it was published in 1842 in Times and Seasons, which Smith edited himself..!!

then it was in the Millennial Star (Pratt 1842, p. 53).

Then it was published in the first edition of the Pearl of Great Price (Richards 1851, p. 41).



heres a webpage to this "Journal" Dubbs (Note it's not a anti site)

http://deseretbook.com/personalwritings/7

Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
[b], but I am glad you made the admission they make errors and mistakes.

I've been saying their fallible from day one, one of the first posts I made was the below, course how would you know this, you don't read posts, but just concentrate on smary comments, and making comments with no proof.

Your latest two was your claim that Jeff Lindsay uses misinformation you couldn't prove, and that the church changed the orginal D&C as far as Moroni being the person Joseph spoke with. Typical angry inch.

Well here Dubbs I found it in the 1851 ed. of Pearl of Great Price...!!!




First off, the 1835 edition is the one that we need to see to show idjits like yourself what was orginally said. Not the 1851 edition.

and the Pearl of Great Price has the Books of Moses and Abraham, it doesn't even mention Joseph's vision.

Not sure where you got this, but it's about as accurate as a Bigdaddy legal document.


"LOL" what no "Big Whoop" or you got that from an anti site "LOL"


I know this is a complex issue for the mentally slow, so let me slow it down for you.


The 1835 edition of the D&C (not the Pearl of Great price) said that "moroni" was the one who visited Joseph.


This is what I was looking for to show Wren that the Millinium start mistake was precluded by the LDS scripture clarifying.

So.... for you to post a article from the 1850 edition of the Pearl of Great price, is not even a scripture that mentions Joseph's story of the visitation from Moroni, so not sure what this supposed post is even referencing.

I know that flew right over your head, but hey, I try to help the slow of mind.

To be honest Dubbs, I have been try to find out where the 1835 edition of the D&C got into this discussion,

because what I said was that the Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, a word-for-word account of the original 1838 account dictated by Joseph Smith and transcribed by James Mulholland.
it notes how "Nephi" rather than "Moroni" was the original word written and that Nephi was the original name published in the 1851 edition of the Pearl of Great Price and "in the original publication of the history in the Times and Seasons at Nauvoo...and the Millennial Star"

and I'm not sure how the D&C got twisted in there...

But it did not start by a newspaper like you said Dubbs this is how it started:

on May 2, 1838, a few months before Smith's statement in Elders' Journal, Smith began dictating a church history that included a detailed account of his visits from the angel (Smith 1838a, p. 7).

Smith identified the angel as "Nephi", which is the name of the Book of Mormon's first narrator (Smith 1838a, p. 5).

Smith's 1838 identification as "Nephi" was repeated when the 1838 history was published in 1842 in Times and Seasons, which Smith edited himself (Smith 1842, p. 753),

and in Millennial Star (Pratt 1842, p. 53).

In the latter, an editorial referred to the 1823 vision and praised "the glorious ministry and message of the angel Nephi" (1842, p. 71).

After Smith's death, the identification as "Nephi" was repeated when The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints published its first edition of the Pearl of Great Price (Richards 1851, p. 41).

It was also repeated in 1853 when Smith's mother Lucy Mack Smith published a history of her son (Smith 1853, p. 79).

As a further complication, Mary Whitmer, mother to one of the Three Witnesses and four of the Eight Witnesses, said she had a vision of the golden plates, shown to her by an angel, whom she always called "Brother Nephi" (Whitmer 1888, p. 621).

There was confusion, and Joseph wrote two versions of the journal, one with Nephi and one with Moroni, the Millinium star picked up the one with Nephi, and that was printed in England also, so it caused confusion for some time.

WRONG DUBBS..!!!

there was not two versions of the journal where did you get that from..??

there is only one version of the journal that was corrected, a long time after Joseph Smiths Death by someone putting a line though the name Nephi and writing the name Moroni above it..see how you goof things up...

and before it was published in the Millinium Star it was first published in 1842 in the Times and Seasons, which Joseph Smith edited himself..!!

then the Millinium Star picked it up..!!!

get the story stright Dubbs quit making up stuff...

But the D&C 1830 edition through 1835 ediction already said MORONI. So the confusion should have been clarified, but it wasn't, if they would have looked at the scriptures, they would have saw the mistake, it wasn't caught for some time.

Dubbs the Book of Commandments was printed in 1832 it had 60 revelations by Joseph Smith in it, then it was changed to the Doctrine and Covenants when an expanded version of the book was printed in Kirtland, Ohio in 1835 "LOL" and there was NO mention of Moroni or Nephi until after 1835

It Does make you wonder why Joseph Smith didn't fix it seeing that he was the editor of the Times and Seasons or at the least write a retraction....

The D&C 1830- 1835 edition clarifies is that it was written before the 1842 Millinium star article, and it shows clearly Joseph said "Moroni" as does many other references, of which I posted many in my post a few days ago.

No that is not true Dubbs..!!
first off there is no 1830-1835 editions of the D&C, there is only 1835 editions and on, funny you don't know this..!!
before 1835 Joseph Smith merely stated that it was 'an angel of the Lord, then in 1835, Smith identified the celestial visitor as 'Moroni'

Just Reading wrote;
Hmmm Dubbs I didn't know Gordon B. Hinckley was President during the Hofmann affair

Dubbs wrote:
Huh? Who said he was President during the Hoffman affair?

You did Dubbs..!!!

Dubbs wrote:
Fact is Gordon B. Hinckley never came out and endorsed those documents as authentic. That is something simply assumed due to the fact that he purchased them.

You should really get your church history straight


Just Reading wrote:
"LOL" OH now you admit that the Joseph Smith papyri, which lay for decades in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City are real "LOL"

Dubbs wrote:
Some of the Papyri, not all of them, and certainly not the ones that Joseph translated from.

Bullsh*t Dubbs it has already been proven "LOL"

As we've discussed many times, the ones they found are obviously not as large as the one's described by those who saw them. (they said they would fill a room by Joseph's mom)

Joseph's mom also said that the Angels name was "NEPHI"
and that ever since Joseph was a little boy he could make up stories about people of other times and make it sound so real, Also she said that Brigham Young was not the new Prophet Josephs son was....and the biggy of all she denied until her death that Joseph had other wives of any kind but her "LOL"

Lovie wrote:
Wren wrote:
As do many LD allow their leaders to do the thinking for them, so do many of the predictive prophetic evangelicals of these latter days. You are, at times, on the opposite side of the coin of the LDS. Blogan, trust in the Lord, and the rest will work itself out. Let's hope Dubbs learns that in time.

Wren Have you left the church too?

I can't have left a church I never belonged to. I am one of the few non-LDS folks from Washington County back in the day, and went on to become a historian and college professor. The West and Mormonism are two of my great interests.