Dubbs asks..."Are you wine bibbing today? Numerous posts you have made today are off topic, make no sense and don't answer questions given."

To which I will reply, as I always do...I do not 'bib wine' Dubbs. I do not drink wine for the sake of drinking wine, but only partake of newly made wine for Sacramental purposes, as the Lord commanded in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine and covenants...and using the same little paper cup that you partake of water in Church.

That does not amount to wine bibbing.

Dubbs said..."Now, back on topic, where in your posts does it say that the Mormons influenced the Government to attack and kill the Indians at Bear river???"

I provided the information a number of times. The Mormons were involved in actions against the Natives. A jury of Mormons tried and executed the young son of a Shoshone Chief on false accusation that he had stolen a Mormon settler's horse.

In truth...this action served only to infuriate the Natives further, and to prompt further attacks on white settlers and emigrants.

Dubbs said..."The problem of fighting amongst the Indians in America was from sea to sea, not just a Mormon immigrant issue, for you to say that fighting in Utah amongst the indians and the Mormons made the government kill at bear river, that's one thing, but to say the Mormons influenced them to kill? That's entirly a false statement."

To which I will reply...yes fighting amongst the Natives was common, and fighting between the Natives and white settlers was also common.

And I never stated that it was limited to the Mormon immigrant issue. The rest of your statement is not worth commenting on.

Dubbs said..."If you read your article there were other factors, like the worry of the Indians cutting off the trail to California, which had just become a state, and the government wanted to make sure they took care of them. there were many factors leading to the massacre, but none of them lead to a conclusion the Mormons were somehow at fault for the killing as James has inferred."

Yes...as I said...there were other factors...glad you're ready to admit that the Mormons WERE ONE OF THE FACTORS.

Lovie wrote:
Jaye, James and Wren have been so informative in this thread. I have learned tons. Even though a lot of negative things have come out, I agree with you that, "these were time we can't begin to understand". I'm so grateful I am able to realize that... Prophets are some times men and some time Prophets. They make mistakes and misjudgments. It dosen't, for me at least, make them less of a Propht or make the church any less true. I think the past few day haven't been overly anti at all, it's a historical event, with lots of twist and turns. One where the whole picture may never be realized. I have found when one opens their mind to new things and ideas; you become teachable and can gather hidden treasures. When one stays closed minded, nothing is ever gained. Thank you again for all the very good info.

lovie

One's testimony of the LDS church should not be changed pro or con because of MMM or whether Lee was in fact a cold-blooded killer, albeit a religiously motivated one. Where the church does good, great, and where it does not, then change it.

No belief or faith or conviction should ever be afraid of the truth. The truth enlarges the soul as well as the mind, it enlightens, it never darkens, it expands sense of wellness.

I, for one, am very grateful for Lovie's good-spirited nature and her decent character. The forum is better off for such as her.

Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Jaye wrote:
[b
3. The article I posted did answer Lovie's question...and quite a number of questions which have been posed in the past. If someone asks a question...I am not above checking out the available resources and offering suggestions and assistance.

No, it did not, just as your post about my comments you said were incorrect you still have not answered how.

Proof is dovie is still wondering if gaurd means danite, your long winded diatribe clifford clavin-esque post DID NOT answer that question. You are not an honest person with your claims of answering questions, when in fact they don't answer a thing.

1. The article answered the question. You simply did not catch the answer.

2. You are still actively engaged in disobedience in disregarding the admonitions of the late President Hinckley.

3. Her moniker is Lovie...not dovie.

4. You are bearing false witness against me Dubbs. I advise caution in further lies.

Prove it, post the part that answers her question or shut your yapper cliffy.

Her question was, and needs to be repeated since I know you like to post long diatribes about other none related subjects, was...

does being a gaurd equal being a danite.

Dubs I got it and if you had the gift of discernment you would too! He has answered my question. If you missed it, you weren't listening to the spirit. At this point, Jaye, any other answer would be casting pearls! This was my gem, and I got it.... thanks

Lovie wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
Lee and his cronies that did this were pathetic excuses for human beings.

Thomask I will ask you, like I Did Dubbs. Sign off, read a book on the subject, and then come to the table with some real food. You kinda look silly. almost like Dubbs, now isn't that sad.

Hope your having a great afternoon!!!

There's nothing "silly" about these pigs slaughtering 120 men, women and children. And that's the truth.

ThomasK wrote:
Lovie wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
Lee and his cronies that did this were pathetic excuses for human beings.

Thomask I will ask you, like I Did Dubbs. Sign off, read a book on the subject, and then come to the table with some real food. You kinda look silly. almost like Dubbs, now isn't that sad.

Hope your having a great afternoon!!!

There's nothing "silly" about these pigs slaughtering 120 men, women and children. And that's the truth.

wow thomask, How do you really feel???

Wren wrote:
Lovie wrote:
Jaye, James and Wren have been so informative in this thread. I have learned tons. Even though a lot of negative things have come out, I agree with you that, "these were time we can't begin to understand". I'm so grateful I am able to realize that... Prophets are some times men and some time Prophets. They make mistakes and misjudgments. It dosen't, for me at least, make them less of a Propht or make the church any less true. I think the past few day haven't been overly anti at all, it's a historical event, with lots of twist and turns. One where the whole picture may never be realized. I have found when one opens their mind to new things and ideas; you become teachable and can gather hidden treasures. When one stays closed minded, nothing is ever gained. Thank you again for all the very good info.

lovie

One's testimony of the LDS church should not be changed pro or con because of MMM or whether Lee was in fact a cold-blooded killer, albeit a religiously motivated one. Where the church does good, great, and where it does not, then change it.

No belief or faith or conviction should ever be afraid of the truth. The truth enlarges the soul as well as the mind, it enlightens, it never darkens, it expands sense of wellness.

I, for one, am very grateful for Lovie's good-spirited nature and her decent character. The forum is better off for such as her.