Tori wrote:

It begins in Sunbeams. Unfortunately, the children are taught at a very young age that by being Mormon, they are right and everybody else is wrong. The Church their family belongs to is the ONLY TRUE church, all of the others are false. They stand up at the pulpit at 4 yrs. of age and everybody thinks it's so cute as their mother whispers in their ear their testimony they are suppose to say where they proclaim that they "know the church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that Pres. Hinckley is a prophet today", etc, etc. It's a subtle but it's a form of brainwashing teaching elitism at a very young age.


I'm really sorry you feel that way.

Jarek wrote:

Tori wrote:

It begins in Sunbeams. Unfortunately, the children are taught at a very young age that by being Mormon, they are right and everybody else is wrong. The Church their family belongs to is the ONLY TRUE church, all of the others are false. They stand up at the pulpit at 4 yrs. of age and everybody thinks it's so cute as their mother whispers in their ear their testimony they are suppose to say where they proclaim that they "know the church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that Pres. Hinckley is a prophet today", etc, etc. It's a subtle but it's a form of brainwashing teaching elitism at a very young age.


I'm really sorry you feel that way.


The LDS, though they certainly engage in the technique, are far from the only ones who do it.

UPC, Church of Christ, certain SBC congregrations I have known, RC, and others do the same thing in their own way.

Wren wrote:

Jarek wrote:

Tori wrote:

It begins in Sunbeams. Unfortunately, the children are taught at a very young age that by being Mormon, they are right and everybody else is wrong. The Church their family belongs to is the ONLY TRUE church, all of the others are false. They stand up at the pulpit at 4 yrs. of age and everybody thinks it's so cute as their mother whispers in their ear their testimony they are suppose to say where they proclaim that they "know the church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that Pres. Hinckley is a prophet today", etc, etc. It's a subtle but it's a form of brainwashing teaching elitism at a very young age.

I'm really sorry you feel that way.


The LDS, though they certainly engage in the technique, are far from the only ones who do it.

UPC, Church of Christ, certain SBC congregrations I have known, RC, and others do the same thing in their own way.


I'm sure you are right about that Wren. Maybe it's unavoidable by a religion that believes they have the only truth. It's just when I think about growing up in the LDS Church, IN Provo Utah, I have memories of truly believing at a very young age that it would be better for everyone if they were Mormons. I remember thinking that I was so lucky that I was born in the Mormon Church. My parents didn't teach me to feel better then the very few non-LDS kids that lived here, but I learned it in subtle ways at Primary for sure. It is taught that Mormon's are the only TRUE church, and everybody is wrong. I was told by a MIA Leader that the Catholic Church was evil. I specifically remember that well.

My point being, wouldn't it a nice thing for these kids to stand up at the pulpit on Fast Sunday and say things like, " I love my family, and I want to love other people like Jesus wants us to", instead of "I know the Church is True", which already at that young age, beginning an elitist, better then others, mind set.

gopherus wrote:

Tori wrote:

It begins in Sunbeams. Unfortunately, the children are taught at a very young age that by being Mormon, they are right and everybody else is wrong. The Church their family belongs to is the ONLY TRUE church, all of the others are false. They stand up at the pulpit at 4 yrs. of age and everybody thinks it's so cute as their mother whispers in their ear their testimony they are suppose to say where they proclaim that they "know the church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that Pres. Hinckley is a prophet today", etc, etc. It's a subtle but it's a form of brainwashing teaching elitism at a very young age.


Tori, NaL and I (and I'm sure you and everyone else) have been through this and found that people don't like the term brainwashing. They don't seem to like indoctrination either. I think they prefer the phrase, 'inspiring an unquestioned knowledge of the Truth.'


I guess that's one way of putting it.

'Inspiring' these young children, whose brains are like little sponges, is critical. I so wish I could go back when my kids were babies and re-teach them. I'm trying to play catch-up now and re-program them to have love without conditions to everybody. I always thought I was teaching them that. I always thought they were gleaning that from Primary, and YW's also. I was wrong.

Vlad Tepes wrote:

Tori wrote:

It begins in Sunbeams. Unfortunately, the children are taught at a very young age that by being Mormon, they are right and everybody else is wrong. The Church their family belongs to is the ONLY TRUE church, all of the others are false. They stand up at the pulpit at 4 yrs. of age and everybody thinks it's so cute as their mother whispers in their ear their testimony they are suppose to say where they proclaim that they "know the church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that Pres. Hinckley is a prophet today", etc, etc. It's a subtle but it's a form of brainwashing teaching elitism at a very young age.


A person can believe that their religion is right/they belong to the only true church without looking down their noses at others. We all have to be careful. I know many fine people of faith (LDS and otherwise) who do not agree with other faiths, but who show respect (recognizing the good they see in other faiths and allowing others to choose to worship God as they see fit).


What you say is true. However, in the LDS faith, the very nature of it's belief causes a person to automatically 'look down their noses' (so to speak) at a non-LDS person because they want to help them see the light. Have the truth. Make sure they (the non LDS) have all the tools to get back with their Heavenly Father. It's just how Mormon's think. To them, respect means showing 'tolerance'. That's a big difference from truly respecting and loving someone and their beliefs.

Tori wrote:

Wren wrote:

Jarek wrote:

Tori wrote:

It begins in Sunbeams. Unfortunately, the children are taught at a very young age that by being Mormon, they are right and everybody else is wrong. The Church their family belongs to is the ONLY TRUE church, all of the others are false. They stand up at the pulpit at 4 yrs. of age and everybody thinks it's so cute as their mother whispers in their ear their testimony they are suppose to say where they proclaim that they "know the church is true, that Joseph Smith was a prophet, that Pres. Hinckley is a prophet today", etc, etc. It's a subtle but it's a form of brainwashing teaching elitism at a very young age.

I'm really sorry you feel that way.


The LDS, though they certainly engage in the technique, are far from the only ones who do it.

UPC, Church of Christ, certain SBC congregrations I have known, RC, and others do the same thing in their own way.


I'm sure you are right about that Wren. Maybe it's unavoidable by a religion that believes they have the only truth. It's just when I think about growing up in the LDS Church, IN Provo Utah, I have memories of truly believing at a very young age that it would be better for everyone if they were Mormons. I remember thinking that I was so lucky that I was born in the Mormon Church. My parents didn't teach me to feel better then the very few non-LDS kids that lived here, but I learned it in subtle ways at Primary for sure. It is taught that Mormon's are the only TRUE church, and everybody is wrong. I was told by a MIA Leader that the Catholic Church was evil. I specifically remember that well.

My point being, wouldn't it a nice thing for these kids to stand up at the pulpit on Fast Sunday and say things like, " I love my family, and I want to love other people like Jesus wants us to", instead of "I know the Church is True", which already at that young age, beginning an elitist, better then others, mind set.


VERY well said, Tori. Up front, I will say that I'm sure this happens to a degree in many other religions...but this is Utah Co., and I think we can dialogue and help all of us really see what can be done to bridge this critical gap.

First of all, I think it is helpful to understand a concept of psychology that the best way to ascertain a person's true beliefs, attitudes, and intentions is by the results in their lives...not by what they say. Yes, talk is cheap, and it is also a process to utilize the human denial system. There is constant evidence on this forum of many who proclaim tolerance and equality, then out of the same "mouth" comes bigotry and lobbying to pass laws keeping humans unequal.

Kit Kat talks frequently of her Lutheran good friend...and I believe her sincere claims of respect for her. Because of her approach to some of the crazy debates here, I'm quite certain she has an attitude of respect and unconditional love and acceptance of all people (although she, like me, struggles with the rudeness and idiocy of some posters -- but that is not based on race, religion, or sexual preference -- just stupidity!). We need more Mormons like her.

By "results," I mean, how do we handle experiences and relationships with those different than we are? Do we approach them with an attitude of "I am better, or know more truth about heaven, or I am more chosen than that person, so I will respond accordingly." Perhaps it is the rules one person has for their kids' associating with other kids that are different. The results will show that attitude. The person's friends, their discussions about people, and their choice of social events will indicate their attitude.

Yes, the issue is forefront in General Conference, and I choose to be optimistic that it is, and will continue to help LDS members get past long-held prejudices, bigotry, and intolerance that has clearly been a part of the LDS culture since its inception. Of course other religions need to do the same, but "we" can't change them, we can only change ourselves...and the justification of "well, others do it too" reminds me of the immature arguments that kids make. Let's all grow up and take responsibility for ourselves individually and make this place more accepting of ALL people!