KitKat wrote:

gopherus wrote:

Unfortunately some of the men in the military are murderers and rapists. They are a very, very small minority. Most are average folks trying to do a job and protecting the United States because they believe in what it stands for. I don't put the President in the same league as these folks. To argue that he is a murderer is to question the definition of the word and when a persons actions make them responsible for the death of another person. I think there are good arguments for both perspectives, but I think we can agree that he has been largely responsible (as a leader of a nation that entered into war) for the deaths of both those who deserved nothing better and those who were entirely innocent (and many in-between). I do think that it would be fare to label Bush a torturer even though he has not to my knowledge directly participated in any such actions. He is directly responsible for the policies of his administration that include attempts to exempt us from Geneva conventions, shipping suspects to nations that condone torture, and setting policy and tone that allowed torture in Guantanamo and Iraq.
Beware being to active in your defense, it suggests that you don't want to address the real issues at hand and can't support the view that he is not a murderer. You can do better. By the way did you ever find any support for suggesting Sheehan is anti-Semitic?


I have to agree, much as I wish I didn't. My brother served two months in VietNam before he was permanently (100%) disabled. In his short time there, he saw things that have scarred him for life. I'll relate one thing and you can belive me or not, makes no difference to me. One night, not long after he arrived, the guys in his barracks were in bed sleeping. My brother could not sleep due to the jungle noises, and such being that he was new. He was just laying there, when the door creaked open and a couple of men came in very quietly. They crept over to the one black soldier in the barracks and slit his throat. It took all my brother had to keep from screaming. I have no idea how this was reported to the soldier's family. But I know it happened because my brother said so and I know my brother. He came back a completely different person than when he left. To this day, he has not gotten over the things he saw. He can't watch any kind of war movie, not even John Wayne, without having flashbacks. War is nasty!


The men who slit the black soldiers throat...who were they? Did your brother get a clear look at them, or was it too dark to see their features, or how they were dressed?

Were they white men, black men, or Asian men? Was the black soldier possibly involved in something he shouldn't have been? How new was he, and how well did he know the black soldier?

Alot of 'fragging' went on in the Nam. I'm not condoning it at all...it was reprehensible...but if you witnessed any such activities and you talked...you were next in line to die.

There are several possibilities... it could be that this individual either saw or heard something he shouldn't have seen or heard, and he threatened to spill the beans...or he may have done something stupid enough in the field to endanger the others, and they decided it was either him or them...he wouldn't get another chance to screw up and get them all killed along with him.

I don't know.

My brother also suffered greatly from what he witnessed during that war. He never recovered, he spent time in and out of the V.A., they had him on pretty heavy drugs, and he finally grew sick of it and committed suicide.

You see...he was a very gentle soul...an artist, and a veritable genius. It was more than this gentle soul could live with. So he opted out.

I'm glad that your brother hasn't also opted out. Our prayers are with him.

Medicine Man wrote:

proletarian wrote:

Uh oh.

The arguments have sunk to the ultimate low:

Calling out Karma Points.

Time for everyone to pop a Xanex and go to bed.


Right on, thats where I am headed, minus the xanex.


Naw...who needs xanex when you can pop a button?

ericmiami wrote:

Roland Kayser wrote:

ericmiami wrote:

BX:
I wouldn't call these guys, BBBoss, Woody, Dubya, WRZ, Crossroad, Silentreader, conservatives. Look at their karma points. It's clear that a majority of people, conservatives and liberals and Mormons and non-Mormons and anti-Mormons and anti-ex Mormons and Baptists and Evangelicals and Muslims and left-handers and right-handers, all disapprove of their fear-ridden arguments.
In my opinion, BBBoss is a jerk because he seems to have the intelligence to come up with far more rational conclusions than he does. I may be wrong, though, about his intelligence. Once learned, it's not all that hard to cut and paste.
Woody is dumber than a coal bucket and has angered more people on more topics here than even Dubya, whom nearly everyone refers to as Dumbya.
WRZ has a sense of humor. I suspect he may turn into a liberal when Bush causes our laws to be repealed completely and becomes an official King.
Crossroad and Silentreader try to outfoam each other like a rabid dog staring into a mirror. They will expire of dehydration one of these days or ruin their keyboards with the dripping moisture.
I agree, it's kind of fun to poke fun at squirming reptilians. Mostly they are defenseless but thanks for your efforts to make them crawl back into their dark hiding places. They were just born during the wrong time. They would have made excellent Nazis for Hitler and they are bitter at having missed their calling in life.

Okay Eric, I dislike Bush as much as you do, but enough with the Hitler/Nazi comparisons. When I start seeing millions of Americans in slave labor camps, gas chambers, etc. I'll agree. Until then, it is way off base. Okay, if Bush is still running the country after Jan. 09, I might start agreeing, but I really don't see that.

I'm talking mainly about the Nazi-like mentality of the posters I listed who identify anyone who disagrees with them as comlibs or baby killers. They would have risen through the ranks in Hitler's Germany. And they would be delighted at getting the chance to be your prison guard and mine.


This from a guy who said this to Woody on post #10:

"You're a great argument for concentration camps and re-education compounds. What a sorry excuse for an American you are, Woody."

So...how is Woody any more Nazi-like than Eric?

JayeG wrote:

KitKat wrote:

gopherus wrote:

Unfortunately some of the men in the military are murderers and rapists. They are a very, very small minority. Most are average folks trying to do a job and protecting the United States because they believe in what it stands for. I don't put the President in the same league as these folks. To argue that he is a murderer is to question the definition of the word and when a persons actions make them responsible for the death of another person. I think there are good arguments for both perspectives, but I think we can agree that he has been largely responsible (as a leader of a nation that entered into war) for the deaths of both those who deserved nothing better and those who were entirely innocent (and many in-between). I do think that it would be fare to label Bush a torturer even though he has not to my knowledge directly participated in any such actions. He is directly responsible for the policies of his administration that include attempts to exempt us from Geneva conventions, shipping suspects to nations that condone torture, and setting policy and tone that allowed torture in Guantanamo and Iraq.
Beware being to active in your defense, it suggests that you don't want to address the real issues at hand and can't support the view that he is not a murderer. You can do better. By the way did you ever find any support for suggesting Sheehan is anti-Semitic?


I have to agree, much as I wish I didn't. My brother served two months in VietNam before he was permanently (100%) disabled. In his short time there, he saw things that have scarred him for life. I'll relate one thing and you can belive me or not, makes no difference to me. One night, not long after he arrived, the guys in his barracks were in bed sleeping. My brother could not sleep due to the jungle noises, and such being that he was new. He was just laying there, when the door creaked open and a couple of men came in very quietly. They crept over to the one black soldier in the barracks and slit his throat. It took all my brother had to keep from screaming. I have no idea how this was reported to the soldier's family. But I know it happened because my brother said so and I know my brother. He came back a completely different person than when he left. To this day, he has not gotten over the things he saw. He can't watch any kind of war movie, not even John Wayne, without having flashbacks. War is nasty!


The men who slit the black soldiers throat...who were they? Did your brother get a clear look at them, or was it too dark to see their features, or how they were dressed?

Were they white men, black men, or Asian men? Was the black soldier possibly involved in something he shouldn't have been? How new was he, and how well did he know the black soldier?

Alot of 'fragging' went on in the Nam. I'm not condoning it at all...it was reprehensible...but if you witnessed any such activities and you talked...you were next in line to die.

There are several possibilities... it could be that this individual either saw or heard something he shouldn't have seen or heard, and he threatened to spill the beans...or he may have done something stupid enough in the field to endanger the others, and they decided it was either him or them...he wouldn't get another chance to screw up and get them all killed along with him.

I don't know.

My brother also suffered greatly from what he witnessed during that war. He never recovered, he spent time in and out of the V.A., they had him on pretty heavy drugs, and he finally grew sick of it and committed suicide.

You see...he was a very gentle soul...an artist, and a veritable genius. It was more than this gentle soul could live with. So he opted out.

I'm glad that your brother hasn't also opted out. Our prayers are with him.


I can't answer those questions, Jaye. I only know that it was dark. My brother said when the killers left, he was shaking so bad and had to force himself not to throw up. He used to talk about "wrapping his car around a tree", but no longer does. He is addicted to Morphine, which he takes for his pain. He's not in real good conditon, but he will be ok. In the last few years since dad passed on, he and I have become closer, and I think that is helping him. I hope so.

Nightblader wrote:

dailyherald wrote:

Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson's attack on the character of President Bush must be an embarrassment to us all.His announcement to lead a protest against the President's visit to Utah lacks statesmanship and is shameful to citizens of this state.

Read more...


Rocky Anderson KICKS ASS!
This guy is a dumbass. who the hell still thinks people love George Bush? The only reason he ever got into office was through rigging the votes and relying on his rich oil daddy to sponsor his campaign. Rocky Anderson is right. It'll take longer than our lifetimes to fix this damage. Only stupid republican mormon (no offense mormons, but i have to live with ignorant mormon parents so I don't think I'll ever like you people) retards don't approve of Rocky Anderson. If i could i would be protesting right now. Anyone who hates Bush go to google or youtube and search for a video called Loose Change. And/or see the movie V for Vendetta.


No offense? Child...I have no idea how old you are...but someday you will reach the age of 18, and you will no longer 'have to live with ignorant mormon parents'.

I'm sure that your 'ignorant mormon parents' will be heartbroken to see you go.

Silvaeieio wrote:

ericmiami wrote:

Truth 24 7 wrote:

ericmiami wrote:

Truth 24 7 wrote:


Keep up the good work, Woody. (Wink, wink). Looks like another of your relatives has access to your computer. Unless you have figured out how to use another email address. If you are going to pose as another person, Woody, at least make their stupid posts believable.


My experience has been that those who make accusations of others are usually the ones who are guilty of the offense.

My experience has been that those who take a screen name that attempts to reflect their perceptions of their own veracity are usually the ones who are trying to shore up a weakness. Keep up the good work, Woody.


You know what Eric? I didn't like that screen name either. So, I deleted that account (Truth 24 7). Not because I don't tell the truth or appreciate the truth, but it was kind of dumb. This is my "real" screen name. I've used this for years, so it is me. So there!! Strange, but guess what? I still think the same, and feel the same, and will probably still type the same. So I guess it really doesn't matter all that much.

I do have some interesting questions though. Does your "experience" with screen names mean that Truth Typhoon is truth-challenged, and Proletarian is not a Proletariat? Maybe you just wish you lived in Miami? Hmmmmmmmmm. I just don't know what to think of all this.

Oh, and by the way . . . . I loved your post about the Karr case where you stated that you didn't fall for the media hype. How do you explain, then, that you are just a parrot of what the media pumps out about Bush, Iraq, WMDs, War on Terror, etc? You don't have an original thought in your head. I guess you are "selective" of the media hype you want to parrot. Perhaps you should consider the fact that the media hypes and reports inaccuracies all over the place, including politically. Oh my!!

And, thanks to all of you gave me the 4 Karma points. I don't even know how to do that cuz I am just a Newbie. I think if you look at the ratio of negative to positive Karma points on average, it just means that there are more liberal wackos who are sitting around waiting for someone to take care of them, while the quiet conservative types are out there taking care of business. So of course the wackos have more time to devote to their keyboard and are probably the only ones who really care about giving negative points, cuz they are negative 24-7. Oops!! There it is again.


Look below your moniker. Below Karma you will see "applaud" and "smite".

Select "applaud" to give positive karma, or "smite" for negative karma.

Personally...I think it's a load of hooey. What is most important is what you think about yourself, and your own opinion...not what others think about you or your opinions.

Welcome to the forum. I appreciate your comments.