Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Sunday, 4 May 2008
Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons
From Daily Herald news services


Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons

EDs: APNewsNow.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Vatican has ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons who perform posthumous baptisms.

The order was issued by a clergy mainstay, the Vatican Congregation for Clergy. Officials said the step was taken to prevent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from baptizing by proxy their Catholic ancestors.

The order was first reported by Catholic News Service. There was no immediate response from the Mormon church's world headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald said the Catholic diocese in Utah already has a policy to restrict baptismal records only to those entitled to see the records.

One Mormon genealogist, Russell Bangerter, told the Deseret News of Salt Lake City that the order cracks down on the free flow of information.

Bangerter said the Mormon church has an open-door policy at its own Family History Library.

------

Information from: Deseret News, http://www.deseretnews.com

**************************************************

Interesting. And the Catholic Church has the right to keep their parish records confidential.

However...IMPO of course...I believe that people do have the right to perform these ordinances for their own ancestors...if that is what they wish.

IPR belongs to the parish and the diocese.

They can refuse to give a certified copy to anyone, regardless of the reason, including descendents.

I don't see what it really matters, though.

It doesn't. Especially if the LDS descendants know who their Catholic ancestors were. The records wouldn't really matter anyway.

Yes any Mormon can bring down and condemn any of their ancestors they want into mormonism, even if there ancestors didn't believe in the mormon crap.... "Cool"

if there were a Satan he would love the Mormons

Condemn? Strong words there John. Or do you think that God is going to force the dead to accept the ordinances if they don't want to?

I know that you figure Mormonism to be crap, and I understand why.

But some of your friends on this forum do not. Please keep that in mind.

The Keeper wrote:
utocoman wrote:
Grizz wrote:
According to the book of mormon any one without the Law (gentiles) do not need baptism, they are redeemed regardless, and it is a mockery to God to trust in work for the dead.

Moroni chapter 8

22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—


23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.

Joseph Smith said our greatest responsibility is to seek after our dead.
"The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 7).

The rest of the world calls that necromancy!

I disagree...and this is why.

Necromancy is the act of conjuring the dead for divination. It dates back to Persia, Greece and Rome, and in the Middle Ages was widely practiced by magicians, sorcerers, and witches. It was condemned by the Catholic Church as "the agency of evil spirits," and in Elizabethan England was outlawed by the Witchcraft Act of 1604.

Necromancy is not to be confused with conjuring devils or demons for help. Necromancy is the seeking of the spirits of the dead. The spirits are sought because they, being without physical bodies, are no longer limited by the earthly plane. Therefore, it is thought these spirits have access to information of the past and future which is not available to the living. It has been used to help find sunken or buried treasure, and whether or not a person was murdered or died from other causes.

The practice of necromancy has been compared by some to modern mediumistic or practiced spiritualism. Many consider it a dangerous and repugnant practice. Dangerous because it is alleged that when some spirits take control of the medium they are reluctant to release their control for some time.

Necromancy is not practiced in Neo-pagan Witchcraft, but it is practiced in Voodoo.

There are two noted kinds of necromancy: the raising of the corpse itself, and the most common kind, the conjuring or summoning of the spirit of the corpse.

In my 50-something years of life on this earth, and membership in the LDS Church...I've never seen anyone conjure demons or spirits for the purpose of divination...and I've never seen, or heard of any Mormon raising the corpse itself...or summoning the spirit of the corpse.

If this was what the Mormons practiced...then why in the heck didn't they just raise Joseph Smith from the dead, or conjure his spirit to seek answers regarding his behavior, and his teachings?

We do not practice necromancy Keeper. We keep our genealogy. We keep our records. We do the ordinance work we believe is required for those ancestors who have gone before us.

Wren wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Sunday, 4 May 2008
Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons
From Daily Herald news services


Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons

EDs: APNewsNow.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Vatican has ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons who perform posthumous baptisms.

The order was issued by a clergy mainstay, the Vatican Congregation for Clergy. Officials said the step was taken to prevent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from baptizing by proxy their Catholic ancestors.

The order was first reported by Catholic News Service. There was no immediate response from the Mormon church's world headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald said the Catholic diocese in Utah already has a policy to restrict baptismal records only to those entitled to see the records.

One Mormon genealogist, Russell Bangerter, told the Deseret News of Salt Lake City that the order cracks down on the free flow of information.

Bangerter said the Mormon church has an open-door policy at its own Family History Library.

------

Information from: Deseret News, http://www.deseretnews.com

**************************************************

Interesting. And the Catholic Church has the right to keep their parish records confidential.

However...IMPO of course...I believe that people do have the right to perform these ordinances for their own ancestors...if that is what they wish.

IPR belongs to the parish and the diocese.

They can refuse to give a certified copy to anyone, regardless of the reason, including descendents.

I don't see what it really matters, though.

It doesn't. Especially if the LDS descendants know who their Catholic ancestors were. The records wouldn't really matter anyway.

Yes any Mormon can bring down and condemn any of their ancestors they want into mormonism, even if there ancestors didn't believe in the mormon crap.... "Cool"

if there were a Satan he would love the Mormons

I get that you don't like Mormonism. So what?


So buttons on your underwear

are you OK Wren..??

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in my family. We had some members of the family join an off shoot off the Mormon Church. The rest of the family got together and, agreed that they should withhold the genealogy work they had done from them. Because they didn't want any relatives being baptized into a false religion. It should be great to hear their reaction to this.

Sir John the Apostate wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in my family. We had some members of the family join an off shoot off the Mormon Church. The rest of the family got together and, agreed that they should withhold the genealogy work they had done from them. Because they didn't want any relatives being baptized into a false religion. It should be great to hear their reaction to this.
Sounds like you "mainstream" relatives need to be slapped upside the head.

Jaye wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Sunday, 4 May 2008
Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons
From Daily Herald news services


Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons

EDs: APNewsNow.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Vatican has ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons who perform posthumous baptisms.

The order was issued by a clergy mainstay, the Vatican Congregation for Clergy. Officials said the step was taken to prevent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from baptizing by proxy their Catholic ancestors.

The order was first reported by Catholic News Service. There was no immediate response from the Mormon church's world headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald said the Catholic diocese in Utah already has a policy to restrict baptismal records only to those entitled to see the records.

One Mormon genealogist, Russell Bangerter, told the Deseret News of Salt Lake City that the order cracks down on the free flow of information.

Bangerter said the Mormon church has an open-door policy at its own Family History Library.

------

Information from: Deseret News, http://www.deseretnews.com

**************************************************

Interesting. And the Catholic Church has the right to keep their parish records confidential.

However...IMPO of course...I believe that people do have the right to perform these ordinances for their own ancestors...if that is what they wish.

IPR belongs to the parish and the diocese.

They can refuse to give a certified copy to anyone, regardless of the reason, including descendents.

I don't see what it really matters, though.

It doesn't. Especially if the LDS descendants know who their Catholic ancestors were. The records wouldn't really matter anyway.

Yes any Mormon can bring down and condemn any of their ancestors they want into mormonism, even if there ancestors didn't believe in the mormon crap.... "Cool"

if there were a Satan he would love the Mormons

Condemn? Strong words there John. Or do you think that God is going to force the dead to accept the ordinances if they don't want to?

I know that you figure Mormonism to be crap, and I understand why.

But some of your friends on this forum do not. Please keep that in mind.

Yes Jaye I understand my friends made a choice to become Mormon,
that was and is their decision,
Now if I feel my friend have made a wrong choice I will let them know, and I have,
I still respect my friends and I know they have made their choice so out of respect I do not push them or bug them to make a choice that I feel is right....

but I'm ashammed that Mormons and now it seems that maybe some of my friends do not respect others, who did not choose to be moromon and make that decision for them...

So if you think my words were strong, good they were meant too be...!!!

no one forced my friends to be or not to be Mormon.... and mormons should not force others to become mormon with out their say so.
relitives should not make decisions for their ancestors,

it's like that Mormon Mother and father who took their 19 year old daughter to another state so she couldn't get married because they didn't like the guy.... hey maybe they thought since we make decisions for our ancestors in the Mormon Church we can make choices for everyone....