Sir John the Apostate wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Sir John the Apostate wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in my family. We had some members of the family join an off shoot off the Mormon Church. The rest of the family got together and, agreed that they should withhold the genealogy work they had done from them. Because they didn't want any relatives being baptized into a false religion. It should be great to hear their reaction to this.

How does one withhold genelogy work that was already done?

They were in the process of doing it and wouldn't give them any of the information.

But as usual you've missed the point.


There are many ways to get genelogy records, there are companies that do that for you, so I doubt it stopped them one bit.

JLD wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Sunday, 4 May 2008
Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons
From Daily Herald news services


Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons

EDs: APNewsNow.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Vatican has ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons who perform posthumous baptisms.

The order was issued by a clergy mainstay, the Vatican Congregation for Clergy. Officials said the step was taken to prevent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from baptizing by proxy their Catholic ancestors.

The order was first reported by Catholic News Service. There was no immediate response from the Mormon church's world headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald said the Catholic diocese in Utah already has a policy to restrict baptismal records only to those entitled to see the records.

One Mormon genealogist, Russell Bangerter, told the Deseret News of Salt Lake City that the order cracks down on the free flow of information.

Bangerter said the Mormon church has an open-door policy at its own Family History Library.

------

Information from: Deseret News, http://www.deseretnews.com

**************************************************

Interesting. And the Catholic Church has the right to keep their parish records confidential.

However...IMPO of course...I believe that people do have the right to perform these ordinances for their own ancestors...if that is what they wish.

IPR belongs to the parish and the diocese.

They can refuse to give a certified copy to anyone, regardless of the reason, including descendents.

I don't see what it really matters, though.

It doesn't. Especially if the LDS descendants know who their Catholic ancestors were. The records wouldn't really matter anyway.

Yes any Mormon can bring down and condemn any of their ancestors they want into mormonism, even if there ancestors didn't believe in the mormon crap.... "Cool"

if there were a Satan he would love the Mormons

Condemn? Strong words there John. Or do you think that God is going to force the dead to accept the ordinances if they don't want to?

I know that you figure Mormonism to be crap, and I understand why.

But some of your friends on this forum do not. Please keep that in mind.

Yes Jaye I understand my friends made a choice to become Mormon,
that was and is their decision,
Now if I feel my friend have made a wrong choice I will let them know, and I have,
I still respect my friends and I know they have made their choice so out of respect I do not push them or bug them to make a choice that I feel is right....

but I'm ashammed that Mormons and now it seems that maybe some of my friends do not respect others, who did not choose to be moromon and make that decision for them...

So if you think my words were strong, good they were meant too be...!!!

no one forced my friends to be or not to be Mormon.... and mormons should not force others to become mormon with out their say so.
relitives should not make decisions for their ancestors,

it's like that Mormon Mother and father who took their 19 year old daughter to another state so she couldn't get married because they didn't like the guy.... hey maybe they thought since we make decisions for our ancestors in the Mormon Church we can make choices for everyone....

The "Baptisms for the dead" don't make you Mormon.

Then why do the Mormons do them ??

Dubbs wrote:
Grizz wrote:
According to the book of mormon any one without the Law (gentiles) do not need baptism, they are redeemed regardless, and it is a mockery to God to trust in work for the dead.

Moroni chapter 8

22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—


23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.

This is too funny. This is speaking of Children who die before the age of accountability, which is age 8. This is what it is speaking of who don't need baptism you idiot.

I suppose you missed the fact that it also referred to all of those who lived and died without knowing the law...eh? Kent?

Just Reading wrote:
JLD wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Sunday, 4 May 2008
Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons
From Daily Herald news services


Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons

EDs: APNewsNow.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Vatican has ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons who perform posthumous baptisms.

The order was issued by a clergy mainstay, the Vatican Congregation for Clergy. Officials said the step was taken to prevent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from baptizing by proxy their Catholic ancestors.

The order was first reported by Catholic News Service. There was no immediate response from the Mormon church's world headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald said the Catholic diocese in Utah already has a policy to restrict baptismal records only to those entitled to see the records.

One Mormon genealogist, Russell Bangerter, told the Deseret News of Salt Lake City that the order cracks down on the free flow of information.

Bangerter said the Mormon church has an open-door policy at its own Family History Library.

------

Information from: Deseret News, http://www.deseretnews.com

**************************************************

Interesting. And the Catholic Church has the right to keep their parish records confidential.

However...IMPO of course...I believe that people do have the right to perform these ordinances for their own ancestors...if that is what they wish.

IPR belongs to the parish and the diocese.

They can refuse to give a certified copy to anyone, regardless of the reason, including descendents.

I don't see what it really matters, though.

It doesn't. Especially if the LDS descendants know who their Catholic ancestors were. The records wouldn't really matter anyway.

Yes any Mormon can bring down and condemn any of their ancestors they want into mormonism, even if there ancestors didn't believe in the mormon crap.... "Cool"

if there were a Satan he would love the Mormons

Condemn? Strong words there John. Or do you think that God is going to force the dead to accept the ordinances if they don't want to?

I know that you figure Mormonism to be crap, and I understand why.

But some of your friends on this forum do not. Please keep that in mind.

Yes Jaye I understand my friends made a choice to become Mormon,
that was and is their decision,
Now if I feel my friend have made a wrong choice I will let them know, and I have,
I still respect my friends and I know they have made their choice so out of respect I do not push them or bug them to make a choice that I feel is right....

but I'm ashammed that Mormons and now it seems that maybe some of my friends do not respect others, who did not choose to be moromon and make that decision for them...

So if you think my words were strong, good they were meant too be...!!!

no one forced my friends to be or not to be Mormon.... and mormons should not force others to become mormon with out their say so.
relitives should not make decisions for their ancestors,

it's like that Mormon Mother and father who took their 19 year old daughter to another state so she couldn't get married because they didn't like the guy.... hey maybe they thought since we make decisions for our ancestors in the Mormon Church we can make choices for everyone....

The "Baptisms for the dead" don't make you Mormon.

Then why do the Mormons do them ??

Because Jesus sent His disciples forth to preach His gospel throughout the world, and to teach obedience to the principles of His gospel...which includes the ordinance of baptism.

And the Apostle Paul also mentioned baptism for the dead.

KitKat wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Sunday, 4 May 2008
Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons
From Daily Herald news services


Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons

EDs: APNewsNow.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Vatican has ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons who perform posthumous baptisms.

The order was issued by a clergy mainstay, the Vatican Congregation for Clergy. Officials said the step was taken to prevent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from baptizing by proxy their Catholic ancestors.

The order was first reported by Catholic News Service. There was no immediate response from the Mormon church's world headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald said the Catholic diocese in Utah already has a policy to restrict baptismal records only to those entitled to see the records.

One Mormon genealogist, Russell Bangerter, told the Deseret News of Salt Lake City that the order cracks down on the free flow of information.

Bangerter said the Mormon church has an open-door policy at its own Family History Library.

------

Information from: Deseret News, http://www.deseretnews.com

**************************************************

Interesting. And the Catholic Church has the right to keep their parish records confidential.

However...IMPO of course...I believe that people do have the right to perform these ordinances for their own ancestors...if that is what they wish.

IPR belongs to the parish and the diocese.

They can refuse to give a certified copy to anyone, regardless of the reason, including descendents.

I don't see what it really matters, though.

It doesn't. Especially if the LDS descendants know who their Catholic ancestors were. The records wouldn't really matter anyway.

Yes any Mormon can bring down and condemn any of their ancestors they want into mormonism, even if there ancestors didn't believe in the mormon crap.... "Cool"

if there were a Satan he would love the Mormons

Condemn? Strong words there John. Or do you think that God is going to force the dead to accept the ordinances if they don't want to?

I know that you figure Mormonism to be crap, and I understand why.

But some of your friends on this forum do not. Please keep that in mind.

Yes Jaye I understand my friends made a choice to become Mormon,
that was and is their decision,
Now if I feel my friend have made a wrong choice I will let them know, and I have,
I still respect my friends and I know they have made their choice so out of respect I do not push them or bug them to make a choice that I feel is right....

but I'm ashammed that Mormons and now it seems that maybe some of my friends do not respect others, who did not choose to be moromon and make that decision for them...

So if you think my words were strong, good they were meant too be...!!!

no one forced my friends to be or not to be Mormon.... and mormons should not force others to become mormon with out their say so.
relitives should not make decisions for their ancestors,

it's like that Mormon Mother and father who took their 19 year old daughter to another state so she couldn't get married because they didn't like the guy.... hey maybe they thought since we make decisions for our ancestors in the Mormon Church we can make choices for everyone....
John, may I say something?
Yes KitKat you can say anything you like (You're my friend so I respect anything you say, I May not agree with somethings but I'll always love ya....)

What about those of us who are happy in the Church? You have admitted yourself that today's LDS church does do alot of good in the world.
KitKat I hope you know that I do still believe that the LDS church does, do a lot of good...and I'm not asking you or telling you to change, If you're happy then I'm glad...

I do not believe many things other religions teach, but I give people the right to believe as they do and I won't bash their beliefs. It is all about respecting the beliefs of others.
KitKat I respect your beliefs, But if I feel your beliefs are infringing on the rights of others,

I feel I have a right to say so!! others of the LDS faith state their opinions on here, so I hope that I can do the same or is this just to be a one sided conversation only for those who believe in mormonism with out question....???

You don't have to accept what the LDS believe. But what does it hurt to respect others? Respect is a two-way street. To get it, you give it.
Good then I hope you give me the respect to say my beliefs... as I have you and others...

And that mother and father.. do you honestly think that only happened because they are LDS?
"NO" I do not..!! I was only using that as an example...

More likely, it happened because they have mental issues or are just plain mean. I'd bet my last dollar that those things happen in other faiths too, because we are all human.

I would bet also KitKat, I would bet also

Jaye wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
JLD wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Just Reading wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Wren wrote:
Jaye wrote:
Sunday, 4 May 2008
Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons
From Daily Herald news services


Vatican keeps parish records from Mormons

EDs: APNewsNow.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) -- The Vatican has ordered Catholic dioceses worldwide to withhold member registries from Mormons who perform posthumous baptisms.

The order was issued by a clergy mainstay, the Vatican Congregation for Clergy. Officials said the step was taken to prevent members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from baptizing by proxy their Catholic ancestors.

The order was first reported by Catholic News Service. There was no immediate response from the Mormon church's world headquarters in Salt Lake City.

Msgr. J. Terrence Fitzgerald said the Catholic diocese in Utah already has a policy to restrict baptismal records only to those entitled to see the records.

One Mormon genealogist, Russell Bangerter, told the Deseret News of Salt Lake City that the order cracks down on the free flow of information.

Bangerter said the Mormon church has an open-door policy at its own Family History Library.

------

Information from: Deseret News, http://www.deseretnews.com

**************************************************

Interesting. And the Catholic Church has the right to keep their parish records confidential.

However...IMPO of course...I believe that people do have the right to perform these ordinances for their own ancestors...if that is what they wish.

IPR belongs to the parish and the diocese.

They can refuse to give a certified copy to anyone, regardless of the reason, including descendents.

I don't see what it really matters, though.

It doesn't. Especially if the LDS descendants know who their Catholic ancestors were. The records wouldn't really matter anyway.

Yes any Mormon can bring down and condemn any of their ancestors they want into mormonism, even if there ancestors didn't believe in the mormon crap.... "Cool"

if there were a Satan he would love the Mormons

Condemn? Strong words there John. Or do you think that God is going to force the dead to accept the ordinances if they don't want to?

I know that you figure Mormonism to be crap, and I understand why.

But some of your friends on this forum do not. Please keep that in mind.

Yes Jaye I understand my friends made a choice to become Mormon,
that was and is their decision,
Now if I feel my friend have made a wrong choice I will let them know, and I have,
I still respect my friends and I know they have made their choice so out of respect I do not push them or bug them to make a choice that I feel is right....

but I'm ashammed that Mormons and now it seems that maybe some of my friends do not respect others, who did not choose to be moromon and make that decision for them...

So if you think my words were strong, good they were meant too be...!!!

no one forced my friends to be or not to be Mormon.... and mormons should not force others to become mormon with out their say so.
relitives should not make decisions for their ancestors,

it's like that Mormon Mother and father who took their 19 year old daughter to another state so she couldn't get married because they didn't like the guy.... hey maybe they thought since we make decisions for our ancestors in the Mormon Church we can make choices for everyone....

The "Baptisms for the dead" don't make you Mormon.

Then why do the Mormons do them ??

Because Jesus sent His disciples forth to preach His gospel throughout the world, and to teach obedience to the principles of His gospel...which includes the ordinance of baptism.

And the Apostle Paul also mentioned baptism for the dead.

Ok then why doesn't the LDS Church let the Church that the ancestors believed in handle their members salvation and the LDS worry about their own....

What right does the LDS Church have to Interfere in others salvation if they choose not to do as the Mormons or the bible believes or says to do, where is the free agency..??