Dubbs wrote:
Marylb wrote:
JLD wrote:
Why does it even matter? If you believe in the LDS religion you want them baptized, and if you don't believe, then it doesn't mean anything, just a pointless ceremony that changes nothing.

Because JLD it is an act of expediency. But in this case it is the highest disrespect for the deceased one can do. All living beings select their religion choice in life and to change that is to change who they were. Indeed the very fact that anyone thinks the deceased was unbaptized shows they know what that person wished in life. That is part of what I think is wrong in our society, we think we can make it all turn out our way to the point of even messing with the dead. No respect whatsoever. How many relatives does that deceased person have? Assuming they are from all walks of life the rest should be screaming bloody murder over messing with their heritage. Stand away from any religion and look at it. What if Catholics start rebaptized all these dead people you are kidnapping and they add in actual Mormons, because someone of a distant blood may or may not be related. Wouldn't like it would you?

Wouldn't care, because I believe they are wrong. So really, what care would I have?

If you had a Catholic or an agnostic mom would you care that she is BAPTIZED Mormon or anything she was not? You may answer no and that is fine but isn't the point that many more would say yes they do care? That they don't want their loved ones messed with by some future generation who may or may not even be related but for a drop of diluted blood? Do you care if all the churches want to do this ridiculous act of disrespect?

Marylb wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Marylb wrote:
JLD wrote:
Why does it even matter? If you believe in the LDS religion you want them baptized, and if you don't believe, then it doesn't mean anything, just a pointless ceremony that changes nothing.

Because JLD it is an act of expediency. But in this case it is the highest disrespect for the deceased one can do. All living beings select their religion choice in life and to change that is to change who they were. Indeed the very fact that anyone thinks the deceased was unbaptized shows they know what that person wished in life. That is part of what I think is wrong in our society, we think we can make it all turn out our way to the point of even messing with the dead. No respect whatsoever. How many relatives does that deceased person have? Assuming they are from all walks of life the rest should be screaming bloody murder over messing with their heritage. Stand away from any religion and look at it. What if Catholics start rebaptized all these dead people you are kidnapping and they add in actual Mormons, because someone of a distant blood may or may not be related. Wouldn't like it would you?

Wouldn't care, because I believe they are wrong. So really, what care would I have?

If you had a Catholic or an agnostic mom would you care that she is BAPTIZED Mormon or anything she was not? You may answer no and that is fine but isn't the point that many more would say yes they do care? That they don't want their loved ones messed with by some future generation who may or may not even be related but for a drop of diluted blood? Do you care if all the churches want to do this ridiculous act of disrespect?

Your still not quite getting it, which I find typical of those who oppose this. We are not babtizing them Mormon, we are doing a baptism that we believe they have the choice to reject or accept, so in the end, it's that persons choice.

I wouldn't consider it a "ridiculous act of disrespect". And as I said, it is usually family members who submit the names, some family members may be like you and be offended by the act, while those who believe in what there doing see it as a sign of love and doing Gods will. You should respect that.

If a LDS member submits his ancestors' names, then no act of disrespect has happened. If a list of names is purchased from a religious institution without disclosure of intent, then disrespect is the least of what has happened and is going to happen.

Wren wrote:
If a LDS member submits his ancestors' names, then no act of disrespect has happened. If a list of names is purchased from a religious institution without disclosure of intent, then disrespect is the least of what has happened and is going to happen.

Then they have the right to say no, and not give the list, it's not that big a deal, it will all be worked out in the millenium.

Dubbs wrote:
Wren wrote:
If a LDS member submits his ancestors' names, then no act of disrespect has happened. If a list of names is purchased from a religious institution without disclosure of intent, then disrespect is the least of what has happened and is going to happen.

Then they have the right to say no, and not give the list, it's not that big a deal, it will all be worked out in the millenium.

I agree. As long as full disclosure is taking place, then no harm no foul.

Marylb wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Marylb wrote:
Nope. The bottom line is the deceased has no say ergo let them stand as they lived, proudly and correctly in history as in life. IF any living person wishes a ceremony for their loved one at the time they pass that is fine. If it is in conflict with a deceased person's religious choice in life, not fine.

I mean this isn't brain science. It doesn't matter what ANY religion believes, you can't kidnap dead people for your own expediency. No matter the religion.

Your not understanding the concept, we are not baptising them into the church and calling them a Mormon, the person has the choice to accept the baptism or not. So really, if they don't want it, they can say so. big whoop.

Also, it is usually the relatives who turn in our names for the work to be done. So it is their right to do this.

You mean the deceased has to tell you yes or no? Or do you mean that they go down in your books as baptised and you see if they are when you get there? Are they listed as non-Mormon's until you prove their answer is yes? This is so amazingly disrespectful imo.
Marylb, you are really making a mountain out of a molehill on this. There is no disrespect in what is being done because nothing is being forced upon anyone. Here is how it works: A baptism is performed in behalf of the deceased. It is recorded simply for administrative purposes so that it isn't done over and over and over again. The deceased is not a Mormon. They are not counted on any rolls as being one or ever having been one. After the baptism is performed, it is strictly between God and the deceased as to whether or not they accept that baptism. Their history hasn't changed. Their identity hasn't changed. Their religion hasn't changed etc. etc. etc. They are no more Mormon than you are Pittakan even though I invoked the irreversible holy pittakos chant upon you. We don't have people on the other side reporting back to us whether or not they accepted or rejected the baptism. Even if they do accept it, no one down here is publishing a book saying that they have swapped religions. They are still who they were as far as anyone here on earth is concerned.

Now if we want to talk about disrespect, how about the Catholic Church telling me that I am going to hell because I wasn't officially baptized by one of their recognized sources and then they don't even offer me a way out of hell, ever?