Pittakos wrote:
Marylb wrote:
Nope. The bottom line is the deceased has no say ergo let them stand as they lived, proudly and correctly in history as in life. IF any living person wishes a ceremony for their loved one at the time they pass that is fine. If it is in conflict with a deceased person's religious choice in life, not fine.

I mean this isn't brain science. It doesn't matter what ANY religion believes, you can't kidnap dead people for your own expediency. No matter the religion.
You're right, Marylb. It isn't brain science. Just because I do something in behalf of someone who has died, doesn't mean it is so. "Marylb, I hereby initiate you into the order of the Holy Pittakos to be forever more a Pittakan. I further declare this sacred ordinance to be irreversible in this life and the life hereafter." This is now in print for all to see and is therefor valid. Is it? Have I just changed your history? Have I made a choice for you that you have no choice in?

You can do that and I will gladly bear that burden but then again I am not dead. When I die it then becomes a great act of disrespect for the deceased and their choices in life. It appears to me that this outrageous act is exactly what is wrong with a society who no longer knows how to respect anything, even a life lived.

If this disrespectful act was meaningless you wouldn't fight for it.

Marylb wrote:
JLD wrote:
Why does it even matter? If you believe in the LDS religion you want them baptized, and if you don't believe, then it doesn't mean anything, just a pointless ceremony that changes nothing.

Because JLD it is an act of expediency. But in this case it is the highest disrespect for the deceased one can do. All living beings select their religion choice in life and to change that is to change who they were. Indeed the very fact that anyone thinks the deceased was unbaptized shows they know what that person wished in life. That is part of what I think is wrong in our society, we think we can make it all turn out our way to the point of even messing with the dead. No respect whatsoever. How many relatives does that deceased person have? Assuming they are from all walks of life the rest should be screaming bloody murder over messing with their heritage. Stand away from any religion and look at it. What if Catholics start rebaptized all these dead people you are kidnapping and they add in actual Mormons, because someone of a distant blood may or may not be related. Wouldn't like it would you?

Actually, I still wouldn't care. Sorry, I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinions, but I fail to see how it makes any difference at all in the big scheme of things. It didn't change anything. Oh, the Mormon's baptized so-and-so after he passed away? That's funny, those silly Mormon's. Just because the LDS think they are baptizing someone by proxy doesn't make it so...how can anyone who is not LDS think those baptizing for the dead are going to change anything? Is everyone going to suddenly find out their LDS in the afterlife as a result - doubt it.

JLD wrote:
Marylb wrote:
JLD wrote:
Why does it even matter? If you believe in the LDS religion you want them baptized, and if you don't believe, then it doesn't mean anything, just a pointless ceremony that changes nothing.

Because JLD it is an act of expediency. But in this case it is the highest disrespect for the deceased one can do. All living beings select their religion choice in life and to change that is to change who they were. Indeed the very fact that anyone thinks the deceased was unbaptized shows they know what that person wished in life. That is part of what I think is wrong in our society, we think we can make it all turn out our way to the point of even messing with the dead. No respect whatsoever. How many relatives does that deceased person have? Assuming they are from all walks of life the rest should be screaming bloody murder over messing with their heritage. Stand away from any religion and look at it. What if Catholics start rebaptized all these dead people you are kidnapping and they add in actual Mormons, because someone of a distant blood may or may not be related. Wouldn't like it would you?

Actually, I still wouldn't care. Sorry, I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinions, but I fail to see how it makes any difference at all in the big scheme of things. It didn't change anything. Oh, the Mormon's baptized so-and-so after he passed away? That's funny, those silly Mormon's. Just because the LDS think they are baptizing someone by proxy doesn't make it so...how can anyone who is not LDS think those baptizing for the dead are going to change anything? Is everyone going to suddenly find out their LDS in the afterlife as a result - doubt it.

My relatives who have passed in recent times each had their own flavor. Each believed what they believed, none the same. I love who they were and in fact believer or non-believer it represented one part of them that explained the rest. I can't even imagine someone disrespecting my mom's life after she passed by baptising her to a religion she wasn't even aware of. She was born and raised Catholic in San Francisco California and her history is retold not reinvented.

It does mean something.

Marylb wrote:
Nope. The bottom line is the deceased has no say ergo let them stand as they lived, proudly and correctly in history as in life. IF any living person wishes a ceremony for their loved one at the time they pass that is fine. If it is in conflict with a deceased person's religious choice in life, not fine.

I mean this isn't brain science. It doesn't matter what ANY religion believes, you can't kidnap dead people for your own expediency. No matter the religion.

Your not understanding the concept, we are not baptising them into the church and calling them a Mormon, the person has the choice to accept the baptism or not. So really, if they don't want it, they can say so. big whoop.

Also, it is usually the relatives who turn in our names for the work to be done. So it is their right to do this.

Marylb wrote:
JLD wrote:
Why does it even matter? If you believe in the LDS religion you want them baptized, and if you don't believe, then it doesn't mean anything, just a pointless ceremony that changes nothing.

Because JLD it is an act of expediency. But in this case it is the highest disrespect for the deceased one can do. All living beings select their religion choice in life and to change that is to change who they were. Indeed the very fact that anyone thinks the deceased was unbaptized shows they know what that person wished in life. That is part of what I think is wrong in our society, we think we can make it all turn out our way to the point of even messing with the dead. No respect whatsoever. How many relatives does that deceased person have? Assuming they are from all walks of life the rest should be screaming bloody murder over messing with their heritage. Stand away from any religion and look at it. What if Catholics start rebaptized all these dead people you are kidnapping and they add in actual Mormons, because someone of a distant blood may or may not be related. Wouldn't like it would you?

Wouldn't care, because I believe they are wrong. So really, what care would I have?

Dubbs wrote:
Marylb wrote:
Nope. The bottom line is the deceased has no say ergo let them stand as they lived, proudly and correctly in history as in life. IF any living person wishes a ceremony for their loved one at the time they pass that is fine. If it is in conflict with a deceased person's religious choice in life, not fine.

I mean this isn't brain science. It doesn't matter what ANY religion believes, you can't kidnap dead people for your own expediency. No matter the religion.

Your not understanding the concept, we are not baptising them into the church and calling them a Mormon, the person has the choice to accept the baptism or not. So really, if they don't want it, they can say so. big whoop.

Also, it is usually the relatives who turn in our names for the work to be done. So it is their right to do this.

You mean the deceased has to tell you yes or no? Or do you mean that they go down in your books as baptised and you see if they are when you get there? Are they listed as non-Mormon's until you prove their answer is yes? This is so amazingly disrespectful imo.