Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage (1 viewing) (1) Guests
Go to bottom Post Reply Favoured: 0
TOPIC: Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage
#376764
Jaye (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 11652
graphgraph
User Online Now Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage 3 Months, 2 Weeks ago Karma: 0  
Dubbs wrote:
JLD wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Thank you JLD, you're right, I believe that people have free agency and the right to pursue happiness. I will not infringe my will upon them.

What if that happiness includes pedophilia? Rape?


Those items are not in the scope of the discussion. I think that we all agree that a right is only a right when it does not harm someone else.

I thought that was understood.


He just said the right to pursue happiness, he didn't clarify, I thought I'd point out that it isn't always so cut and dry.


And that's what I keep trying to tell you every time you insist upon a straight yes or no answer.

It isn't always so cut and dry.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#376771
Jaye (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 11652
graphgraph
User Online Now Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage 3 Months, 2 Weeks ago Karma: 0  
timcharper wrote:
ThomasK - If you can tell someone straight to their face that they are living in sin, invite them to change, but still show an increase of love afterwards, you are on solid ground.

I will love them. I will respect them. I will even socialize with them. But I will not call the way they are living not a sin. How ridiculous.

I also would like to make a point that I sin too! I strive to recognize what sin is, because I know that eliminating it from my life will bring me happiness. Why would I love homosexuals less than myself?

(I missed a 'not' which made me say I will spread falsities - blasted imperfected computer operator)


Tim...when you say...'If you can tell someone straight to their face that they are living in sin, invite them to change, but still show an increase of love afterwards, you are on solid ground.'...could it be that you have forgotten what the Savior said about motes and beams? Could it be that you have forgotten what He told the crowd of self-righteous people who had chased down the adulteress and were preparing to stone her to death for her sins?

Let he that is without sin cast the first stone.
Are you without sin, Tim?

It is not your responsibility, and not really even your right to tell anyone else that they are living in sin, or to invite them to change?

When you say...'I will not spread falsities to appeal to the fears and insecurities of a group of people who of their own choice choose to live the way they live. I will not indulge in their longing for acceptance and security through the wrong measures.'...has it occurred to you that many of these people do not 'choose to live the way they live'?

Why would anyone want to live a lifestyle in which they are hated, and persecuted?

You can CHOOSE a religion. You can CHOOSE whether to live as a vegetarian, or to eat meat.

But you cannot choose who you are attracted to. A gay man, or a lesbian woman cannot simply CHOOSE to have feelings for, or fall in love with someone of the opposite sex. It simply does not work that way.

Gays and lesbians are not asking for your indulgence. They are not looking for your acceptance.

They are simply looking for people like you to butt out of their lives...and their bedrooms.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#376775
Jaye (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 11652
graphgraph
User Online Now Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage 3 Months, 1 Week ago Karma: 0  
timcharper wrote:
ThomasK wrote:
timcharper wrote:
ThomasK - If you can tell someone straight to their face that they are living in sin, invite them to change, but still show an increase of love afterwards, you are on solid ground. I will spread falsities to appeal to the fears and insecurities of a group of people who of their own choice choose to live the way they live. I will not indulge in their longing for acceptance and security through the wrong measures.

I will love them. I will respect them. I will even socialize with them. But I will not call the way they are living not a sin. How ridiculous.

I also would like to make a point that I sin too! I strive to recognize what sin is, because I know that eliminating it from my life will bring me happiness. Why would I love homosexuals less than myself?


tim, you and I are different. I don't necessarily believe that Gays, choose to live "the way they live". Just because it isn't the norm, doesn't makes it a sin in my book. I don't believe that God feels the way you do either. Same sex attraction has gone through the ages of man. Same sex attraction does not make a person evil. Same sex attraction doe not negate the same love and caring that a "straight" person has. By labeling them as sinners you justify your attitude and actions towards them. They are peoeple tim. They are God's children. They are human beings. They are citizens of this country. They have every right to have the rights and priviledges we have tim. They aren't going to destroy your family if they are married. They are going to destroy your faith if they are married. I don't know what you are so afraid of tim.


ThomasK,

I know Gays have a choice on how they choose to live. I reject the victim story for myself and for others. What do I have to fear? I would like it if marriage wasn't a federal matter in the first place. But, since the homosexuals have "put the potatoe on the fork" by making it a federal matter, I would prefer it to be one consistent with happiness and prosperity. I would like to have the freedom, and maintain the freedom, to teach my children that the behavior is wrong. Do you hear me? This is my right. I've taken care to articulate why it's wrong to think two males get married. That said, it is not the crux of the reason I am advocating the marriage amendment. I can still be perfectly respectful of their personal liberty and rights, that is:

1. The free exercise of conscience
2. The right and control of property
3. The protection of life

The family is the single most important unit to the success of our nation. Homosexual families are not sustainable. How can they be? Mark my words: if the family fails, our nation will fail. I would like to have the freedom to continue to advocate for proper family life, and not be convicted of a hate crime for saying the behavior is wrong.

Have a good day.

Peace


Your words do not carry the ring of peace.

You asked...'Homosexual families are not sustainable. How can they be?'

To which I reply...even if two males cannot reproduce...they may opt for a surrogate mother to obtain their children.

If two females cannot reproduce...they may opt for in vitro fertilization so to obtain offspring.

There is also adoption...in those areas in which homosexuals are not discriminated against regarding adoption.

There are plenty of children born throughout the world to heterosexual parents who do not want them, or cannot care for them. There are needy children who have been beaten, neglected and abused by their parent(s) who badly need loving adoptive homes.

You left out a right Tim...it's called the right to the pursuit of happiness. One of those inaliable rights.

alienable (Individual) Rights are: natural rights, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They are the most fundamental set of human rights, natural means not-granted nor conditional. They are applicable only to humans, as the basic necessity of their survival.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#376776
Dubbs (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 6396
graphgraph
User Online Now Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage 3 Months, 1 Week ago Karma: -376  
Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
JLD wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Thank you JLD, you're right, I believe that people have free agency and the right to pursue happiness. I will not infringe my will upon them.

What if that happiness includes pedophilia? Rape?


Those items are not in the scope of the discussion. I think that we all agree that a right is only a right when it does not harm someone else.

I thought that was understood.


He just said the right to pursue happiness, he didn't clarify, I thought I'd point out that it isn't always so cut and dry. /quote]

And that's what I keep trying to tell you every time you insist upon a straight yes or no answer.

It isn't always so cut and dry


 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Last Edit: 2008/06/28 14:10 By Dubbs.
 
My ignore list... The The The The Betz, Kitcat, and the blonde. They have nothing of substance to say anyway, but just like to add smarmy comments to the conversations, so why bother with the the constant smariness?

Wren would like to think he's ignoring me, but he can't, won't and will not.

  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#376777
Dubbs (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 6396
graphgraph
User Online Now Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage 3 Months, 1 Week ago Karma: -376  
Jaye wrote:
[. He asked why, and pointed out that this was something which had been actively discussed at Church, and that the priesthood members were asked to help remove these dens of iniquity and ruin from OUR city..

I find this hard to believe, I have never been asked in church to help shut down business of any kind in church, and doubt it happened. We have casinos close to us, and my family has them in the cities they live in, and this has never been asked of them either at church.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
My ignore list... The The The The Betz, Kitcat, and the blonde. They have nothing of substance to say anyway, but just like to add smarmy comments to the conversations, so why bother with the the constant smariness?

Wren would like to think he's ignoring me, but he can't, won't and will not.

  The administrator has disabled public write access.
#376778
Jaye (User)
Platinum Boarder
Posts: 11652
graphgraph
User Online Now Click here to see the profile of this user
Re:LDS Church enters fray on gay marriage 3 Months, 1 Week ago Karma: 0  
One more thing about the inalienable rights... the right to life.

Consider the case of Tennessee Williams. # Tennessee Williams was the victim of an assault in January 1979 in Key West, being beaten by five teenage boys. He escaped serious injury. The episode was part of a spate of anti-gay violence inspired by an anti-gay newspaper ad run by a local Baptist minister. Now he survived...but he very easily could have been seriously injured, or even killed.

* The beating to death of Declan Flynn in Fairview Park, Dublin in 1983. The murder and subsequent suspended sentences of the perpetrators who pleaded guilty to murder saw the emergence of a more vocal gay community in the aftermath.[16]
* The beating death of Charlie Howard in Bangor, Maine in 1984.
* On May 13, 1988, Rebecca Wight was killed when she and her partner, Claudia Brenner, were shot by Stephen Roy Carr while hiking and camping along the Appalachian Trail. Carr later claimed that he became enraged by the couple's lesbianism when he saw them having sex. Carr claimed the woman taunted him by having sex in front of him.
* The fatal stabbing of James Zappalorti, a gay Vietnam veteran (1945 – 1990)
* The killing of Paul Broussard, a Houston-area banker (1968-1991)
* The rape and later murder of Brandon Teena, a transsexual man (1972 – 1993). The events leading to Mr. Teena's death were made into the movie Boys Don't Cry.
* On March 9, 1995, Scott Amedure was murdered after revealing his homosexual attraction to his friend Jonathan Schmitz on The Jenny Jones Show.
* The murders of Roxanne Ellis and Michelle Abdill, a lesbian couple in Medford, Oregon in 1995, by a man who said he thought their "lifestyle" was "sick."
* The bombing of the Otherside Lounge, a lesbian nightclub in Atlanta, by Eric Robert Rudolph, the "Olympic Park Bomber," on February 21, 1997; five bar patrons were injured.
* The death by beating and exposure of Matthew Shepard, a gay student (1976 – 1998)
* The fatal beating of supposedly gay teenager Jeff Whittington in Wellington, New Zealand on May 8, 1999.
* In May 1999, Admiral Duncan pub, a gay bar in Soho was bombed by David Copeland, killing at least 2 people and wounding 73 people.[17]
* The murder of Pfc Barry Winchell on July 6, 1999. He was dating Calpernia Addams, a transgendered author.

John Atherton, Bishop of Waterford and Lismore, was hanged for sodomy under a law that he had helped to institute. His lover was John Childe, his steward and tithe proctor, also hanged. Anonymous pamphlet, 1641.
John Atherton, Bishop of Waterford and Lismore, was hanged for sodomy under a law that he had helped to institute. His lover was John Childe, his steward and tithe proctor, also hanged. Anonymous pamphlet, 1641.

* The July 1, 1999, murders of gay couple Gary Matson and Winfield Mowder by white supremacist brothers Matthew and Tyler Williams. Matthew Williams claimed that by killing the couple he was following "obeying the law of God," because he believed homosexuality violated God's laws. Williams said he hoped his actions would inspire further violence against homosexuals and ethnic minorities.
* The murder of Steen Fenrich by his stepfather, in September 1999. His dismembered remains were found in March 2001, with the phrase "gay nigger number one" scrawled on his skull along with his social security number.
* In November 1999, Blah Bar, a gay bar in Cape Town, South Africa was bombed injuring 2 people.[18]
* The murder of Arthur "J.R." Warren by three teenage boys on July 3, 2000, who believed Warren spread a rumor that he and one of the boys had a sexual relationship. Warren's killers ran over his body to disguise the murder as a hit-and-run.
* One notorious incident of gay-bashing occurred on September 22, 2000. Ronald Gay entered a gay bar in Roanoke, Virginia and opened fire on the patrons, killing Danny Overstreet and injuring six others. Ronald said he was angry over what his name now meant, and deeply upset that three of his sons had changed their surname. He claimed that he had been told by God to find and kill lesbians and gay men, describing himself as a "Christian Soldier working for my Lord".[19]
* Aaron Webster, a gay man in Vancouver, British Columbia, was beaten to death in Stanley Park in 2001.
* On June 16, 2001, Fred Martinez, a transgender student was attacked and beaten to death by 18-year old Shaun Murphy.
* On June 30, 2001, hundreds of soccer hooligans attacked participants of the first Serbian Pride Parade in Belgrade.
* The 2002 homicide of Nizah Morris, a transgender in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and the mishandling of the case by the Philadelphia Police Department.
* The non-fatal stabbing of Bertrand Delanoë, a gay politician, Mayor of Paris, France, in 2002
* The killing of Gwen Araujo, a transsexual woman (1985 – 2002). Michael Magidson, Jaron Nabors, and José Merél were charged with the murder as a hate crime, with Jason Cazares charged as an accomplice. Nabors made a deal with prosecution, receiving a manslaughter conviction in exchange for testimony, but his testimony was largely considered unreliable. The jury hung on Cazares, who then pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter to avoid a retrial. Magidson and Merél were convicted of second-degree murder, but the hate crime enhancement was not accepted by the jury.

* Sakia Gunn (May 26, 1987-May 11, 2003) was a 15-year old African American lesbian who was murdered in a hate crime in Newark, New Jersey. On the night of May 11, Gunn was returning from a night out in Greenwich Village, Manhattan with her friends. While waiting for the #1 New Jersey Transit bus at the corner of Broad and Market Streets in downtown Newark, Gunn and her friends were propositioned by two men. When the girls rejected their advances, by declaring themselves to be lesbians, the men attacked them. Gunn fought back, and one of the men, Richard McCullough, stabbed her in the chest. Both men immediately fled the scene in their vehicle. After one of Gunn's friends flagged down a passing driver, she was taken to nearby University Hospital, where she died.

* On June 17, 2003, Richie Phillips was murdered by Joseph Cottrell. His body was later found in a suitcase, in Rough River Lake. During his trial, Cottrell's relatives testified that he lured Phillips to his death, and killed him because he was gay.
* On July 23, 2003, Nireah Johnson and Brandie Coleman were murdered by Paul Moore, when Moore learned after a sexual encounter that Johnson was transgender.
* On July 31, 2003, 37-year-old Glenn Kopitske was killed by 17-year-old Gary Hirte. Hirte pleaded insanity, claiming he killed Kopitske in a murderous rage after a consensual sexual encounter with the victim, because he felt a homosexual act was "worse than murder."
* On June 5, 2004, Jamaican Gay rights activist Brian Williamson was murdered with a machete, suffering several stab wounds to neck and face.
* On September 28, 2004, Sierra Leonean gay and lesbian rights activist FannyAnn Eddy was murdered while she was working late in her office. Her attackers have escaped from prison and have never been recaptured and prosecuted.
* On January 28, 2005, Ronnie Paris, a three-year-old African American child died due to brain injuries resulting from abuse by his father. According to his mother and other relatives, Ronnie Paris, Jr., would slam his son into walls and force him to "slap-box" because he was concerned the child was gay and feared his son would grow up a sissy.
* On March 11, 2005, Jason Gage -- an openly gay man -- was murdered in his Waterloo, Iowa apartment by an assailant who claimed Gage had made advances and was killed when he fought with the victim. The district attorney in the case noted neither the victim or the perpetrator, or the apartment bore any signs of struggle. Gage was bludgeoned to death with a bottle, and stabbed in the neck with a shard of glass.
* On June 30, 2005, Yishai Shlisel, a Haredi Jew stabbed three marchers in a gay pride parade in Jerusalem, Israel, claiming he acted on behalf of God.[20]
* Jody Dobrowski, murdered in 2005 in London, the two murderers were later sentenced to life in prison.
* In September 2005, Lauren Harries, a former child antiques expert who had gender realignment surgery to become a woman, her father and brother were attacked by 8 young men in their home in Cardiff. According to court, the youths were shouting and swearing and were heard to shout out the word "tranny" - a term of abuse associated with hate crime.[21]
* In December 2005, a Jamaican mob chased an alleged gay man who, fearful of the crowd, jumped into the water and drowned.[22]
* In February 2006, Gisberta Salce Júnior, a homeless Brazilian transsexual living in extreme social exclusion in the Portuguese city of Oporto, was tortured and anally raped with sticks over a period of three days and then thrown into a pit and left to die in an abandoned construction site. A group of twelve to fourteen adolescent boys between the age of 12 and 16 admitted to committing this crime.[23]
* On February 2, 2006, 18 year-old Jacob D. Robida entered a bar in New Bedford, Massachusetts, confirmed that it was a gay bar, and then attacked patrons with a gun and a hatchet, wounding at least three.[24]
* In April 2006, students rioted at the University of the West Indies in Jamaica and attacked an alleged gay student.[22]
* On April 6, 2006, two American television producers, CBS Evening News senior producer Richard Jefferson and 48 Hours producer-researcher Ryan Smith, were beaten with a tire iron outside the Sunset Beach Bar on the Caribbean island of St. Maarten by a group of four men and two women. The attack left Smith unable to speak properly, having suffered a skull fracture and brain damage.[25]
* On June 10, 2006, Kevin Aviance was robbed and beaten by a group of men who yelled anti-gay slurs at him
* On July 30, 2006, six men were brutally beaten after leaving the San Diego, California Gay Pride festival. One of the gay men was beaten so badly that he had to undergo extensive facial reconstructive surgery. All but one of the attackers were adults the exception being a 15-year-old. The attackers were charged with hate crimes.[26]
* On October 8, 2006, Michael Sandy was attacked by four heterosexual young men who lured him into meeting after chatting with him online, while they were looking for gay men to rob. Sandy was hit by a car while trying to escape his attackers. He died five days later, never having regained consciousness.
* On February 14, 2007, three gay men and the gay activist Gareth Williams were stoned by a huge mob in a homophobic attack in Kingston, Jamaica. International human rights organisations have described Jamaica as one of the most homophobic places in the world[27][28]
* On April 8, 2007, approximately 100 men gathered outside a church where 150 people were attending the funeral of a gay man in Mandeville, Jamaica. According to mourners, the crowd broke the windows with bottles and shouted, “We want no battyman [gay] funeral here. Leave or else we’re going to kill you. We don’t want no battyman buried here in Mandeville.” [22]
* On May 12, 2007, Roberto Duncanson was murdered in Brooklyn, New York. He was stabbed to death by Omar Willock, who claimed Duncanson had flirted with him.
* May 16, 2007, Sean William Kennedy, 20, was walking to his car from Brew's Bar in Greenville, SC when Andrew Moller, 18, got out of another car and approached Kennedy. Investigators said that Moller made a comment about Kennedy's sexual orientation, and threw a fatal punch because he didn't like another man's sexual preference.[29]
* On July 7, 2007, 30 participants at a gay pride event in Croatia were attacked by multiple assailants. The attackers had also prepared Molotov cocktails but were stopped by the police before using them. Many people taking part in Gay Pride marches in Eastern Europe (e.g: Romania, Russia, Serbia) have been beaten after leaving the marches.[30][31]
* In September 2007, Osvan Inacio dos Santos, 19, was attacked and murdered in a street near a bar where he had just won the local "Miss Gay" competition in the town of Batingas in northeast Brazil. dos Santos' naked body was found on Sunday morning and forensic examination found his skull had been fractured and indicated sexual assault.[32]
* On December 3, 2007, Craig Gee was attacked by four men whilst holding his boyfriend's hand walking down Crown Street in Surry Hills, Sydney, Australia. Part of his skull was reduced to powder and his leg was broken during the attack. [33] This incident prompted a vigil against the rising level of homophobia in the city and alleged apathy from police [34], and despite the attack, Gee and his boyfriend joined the Chief of Parade Margaret Cho to lead the 2008 Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade. [35]
* In January, 2008, three gay men were attacked in the privacy of their dwelling by an angry mob who had days before threatened them if they did not leave the community in Mandeville, Jamaica. According to reports, two men were hospitalised, one with serious injuries, while another man is still missing and feared dead.[36][22]
* In February 2008, Brazilian gay rights activist Alexandre Peixe dos Santos was attacked and beaten at the Sao Paulo's Gay Pride Association offices in Brazil. Activists estimate that more than 2,680 gay people were murdered in Brazil between 1980 and 2006[37]
* On February 12, 2008, Lawrence "Larry" King, a 15 year old junior highschool student was shot by a classmate at E.O. Green School in Oxnard, California. He was taken off life support after doctors declared him brain dead on February 15. According to Associated Press reports, "prosecutors have charged a 14-year-old classmate with premeditated murder with hate-crime and firearm-use enhancements".

these people were murdered simply because they were homosexuals.

And some were murdered by religious fanatics who thought they were doing God's will.
 
Report to moderator   Logged Logged  
 
Resident husband of a white witch and lover of witches in general.
  The administrator has disabled public write access.
Go to top Post Reply
Powered by FireBoardget the latest posts directly to your desktop
RN/LPN Trinity Mission Health and Rehab of Provo
Office Administrative Support Mentoring of America LLC
Web Producer / Designer The Daily Herald
Care Giver $10.70/hr and RN/LPN positions Utah State Developmental Center
Great Career Move Mentoring of America LLC
Manager, Day Care Pleasant Grove City
Convergys/PeopleScout Customer Service Help

See All Top Jobs Post your job
Generated in 2.80193 Seconds