Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
KitKat wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
Harrdrawk wrote:
Your responses are understandable, but unfortunately they were not really conducive to a learning atmosphere, so there is no point in sharing anything, is there?. For the record, I wasn't referring to anything so interpretive as the Holy Ghost. I was referring to something a bit more tangible (and undeniable), that would put all rumor and speculation about this subject to absolute rest... but alas and alack, a duck is only a duck. In your rush to judge me, (a person you don't know), you quickly revealed who you are, and at the same time, who you are NOT. Why on earth would a weird duck like me want anything to do with either of you two gentlemen? (You "are" gentlemen aren't you?)

Anyway, my visit here has been sufficiently rewarding inspite of your judgmental attitudes towards my person, but as far as I am concerned, you can keep right on trusting in the arm of learned men who are of no small reputation; (the likes of Quinn, Compton, Bushman, FARMS), and women who had nothing really to show, but would want you and everybody else to think that they were/are somehow more special than others. I don't care what or who either of you choose to believe about anything and I can prove it, just by quietly excusing myself from your midst.

May you both fare well in your individual pursuits.

And I mean that sincerely,

h-

Your sincerity is dripping with sincereness

Fact is, if the church had something that would prove these things, they would put it out. You can't deny this, and this fact puts your silly claim into a.... "your full of BS" file.
I thought you were "trying" to change. Are you "sincere" or not?

What was wrong with that? The guy comes in and says he has information that nobody else has. I call BS on it. Nothing wrong with that.
The language, dubs. You could be nicer about it. You shouldn't be using that word if you're a "good LDS man". Or rather, just ignore him. Some posts simply don't warrant a response.

BS= bull sharky
Apparently, you're not sincere.

I wasn't aware I couldn't be sincere and have a sense of humor also. Relax Kitkat.
Let it go. It's quite apparent you're not sincere and have no intention of changing.

bddefense wrote:
Jaye wrote:
... And even continuous and eternal progression in our education?

Humm, I've never heard of "eternal progression in our education"... I've heard of "eternal progression"... but not applied to education and learning.

It would be better called "progression to Godhood" - and once you're at Godhood, there is no longer progression in knowledge or learning new truths - as a God is all knowing.. and has nothing more to learn.

If God could continue to learn eternally, well, then God would be eternally ignorant - not "all knowing". That's not what I learned about God when I attended the LDS church.

Where did you come up with "eternal progression in our education"? Seems to me you're misapplying the concept towards "always learning" which is not what it's about... correct?

And what is progression, exactly? Here is a lest of definitions and related terms:

1. the act of progressing; advancement.
2. the act or an instance of moving from one thing in a sequence to the next.
3. forward motion.
4. onward motion.
5. advancement.
6. progress.
7. gain
8. headway
9. furtherance.

IMPO...even God has progressed from the God of the Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament was portrayed as a wrathful God, a jealous God, a tempestuous God, a God to be mightily feared. He was always smiting this individual, or that civilization.

The God of the Old Testament was a tempermental, and very biased God, who instructed Moses that no man, being wounded in the stones (testicles), or having his privy member cut off could enter into the congregation.

Wherein Jesus healed the sick, and the lame, and the infirm...and even raised the dead.

The God of the New Testament was portrayed as a loving Father.

No bddefense...I believe that progression is eternal...and education is part and parcel to progression.

But you are certainly entitled to your beliefs on the issue.

Harrdrawk wrote:
I'm not denying anything.

There is and always will be "an obvious lack of detailed prmary sources" but I guess that doesn't matter to you. Let's just hope it doesn't bother Fanny Alger or anyone else who was actually there at the time and knows the truth.

I don't doubt that Joseph had other people's wives and some others "sealed" to him. I don't care one bit about that, because that has nothing to do with the flesh. The power of any so-called "sealing" is not what you think it is. There is no external power in any shape or form that literaly binds two free-willed people together for all time and eternity. This would go contrary to the eternal laws of free agency. Said sealing power that is mentioned in the LDS Church is all in each person's own heart, and this should be obvious to you as you look around you and notice how some who were one day sealed together forever just decided not to be and "poof" the sealing was "undone" by no one from Heaven, but themselves. The idea of sealing one person to another is basically meant to provide emotional comfort and security to a person (such as those women who wanted to be sealed to Joseph even though they were already married to someone else) who has difficulty believing in themselves. Joseph had no problem giving these women comfort in their time of need. The obvious fact remains, and will remain until you see Joseph Smith or Emma as resurrected beings, that there is no concrete proof that Joseph ever had sex with anyone but Emma. We have now, the technology to prove what happened in some of those cases back then, and in time we will have the technology to prove every case (using DNA). What will not be proved to anyone's satisfaction, is whether or not joseph had sex with anyone and they didn't get pregnant. Now, you can direct me to whatever sources you feel to, but you will become frustrated in your effort to establish the truth of the matter once and for all, because the truth of the matter is...

he didn't.

And so how can I know what FARMS or Tom Compton and all the other researchers with their wasted invested time don't know?

I have access to something they don't...

...a reliable primary source.

Does one exist? You'd better beleive it.

Does the LDS church have access to it?

If they did there wouldn't be any confusion on this now would they?


(Now

Please state this reliable primary source.

Dubbs wrote:
bddefense wrote:
Jaye wrote:
... And even continuous and eternal progression in our education?

Humm, I've never heard of "eternal progression in our education"... I've heard of "eternal progression"... but not applied to education and learning.

It would be better called "progression to Godhood" - and once you're at Godhood, there is no longer progression in knowledge or learning new truths - as a God is all knowing.. and has nothing more to learn.

If God could continue to learn eternally, well, then God would be eternally ignorant - not "all knowing". That's not what I learned about God when I attended the LDS church.

Where did you come up with "eternal progression in our education"? Seems to me you're misapplying the concept towards "always learning" which is not what it's about... correct?

Good point, and show's Jaye's LDS beliefs are just a shade off.

Really? Better reassess your beliefs.

"Elder Henry B. Eyring
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

CES Fireside for Young Adults
6 May 2001

Conversion Brings a Drive to Learn

From the restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ in the time of Joseph Smith to our own days, you can see the evidence of that drive to learn springing from true conversion. Joseph Smith, as a very young man, translated the Book of Mormon from plates inscribed with a language no one on earth understood. He did it by a divine gift of revelation from God. But he later hired a tutor to teach him and other leaders of the Church ancient languages. Joseph Smith had essentially no formal schooling, yet the effect of the gospel of Jesus Christ on him was to make him want to learn more so that he could be more useful to God and to God’s children.

When the Latter-day Saints were driven from Missouri by mobs, they built a city on the banks of the Mississippi River. They named it Nauvoo. In their poverty and on the western edges of the country they formed a university.

"In 1840, Joseph Smith sought the incorporation of the City of Nauvoo, Illinois, and along with it authority to establish a university. The Nauvoo charter included authority to ‘establish and organize an institution of learning within the limits of the city, for the teaching of the arts, sciences and learned professions, to be called the "University of the City of Nauvoo"’ (quoted in Salisbury, p. 269).

"The first academic year in Nauvoo was that of 1841–42. The university probably was among the first municipal universities in the United States (Rich, p. 10). . . . The curriculum included languages (German, French, Latin, Greek, and Hebrew), mathematics, chemistry and geology, literature, and history. . . . ‘The faculty represented considerable scholarship [compared with what you would expect to find in a frontier city in those early days]’ (Bennion, p. 25).

" . . . The charter of the University of the City of Nauvoo served as the foundation for the University of Deseret (now the University of Utah), established by Brigham Young in Salt Lake City in 1850. ‘Education,’ he once told that school’s Board of Regents, ‘is the power to think clearly, the power to act well in the world’s work, and the power to appreciate life’ (Bennion, p. 115). He advised: ‘A good school teacher is one of the most essential members in society’ (JD 10:225)" (in Daniel H. Ludlow, ed., Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 5 vols. [1992], 2:442–43).

When the Saints in Utah were still struggling to produce enough food to live, they started schools. They felt driven to lift their children toward light and to greater usefulness by education. That drive is more than a cultural tradition passed on through the generations. It is the natural fruit of living the gospel of Jesus Christ. You see it today across the world in our missionaries coming home from their brief service in the field. More than a thousand young Mexicans come home from the mission field every year. More than a thousand Brazilians return to their homes each year from missionary service. Those who have planted the good word of God and have served faithfully invariably have awakened in them a great desire for self-improvement. And with that comes a desire to learn more and to gain greater skills.

Those are the desires that drew Latter-day Saint young people to the University of Idaho. That is the desire that will draw young people to education and training of all kinds in all the nations where the gospel works in the hearts of members of all ages.

But that explains only why there is such a growth in the number of members, old and young, who seek more education and more training. The reason for the growth in institutes of religion lies in the leaders of the Church recognizing another simple truth. It is that the purpose of God’s creations and of His giving us life is to allow us to have the learning experience necessary for us to come back to Him, to live with Him, in eternal life. That is only possible if we have our natures changed through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, true repentance, and making and keeping the covenants He offers all of His Father’s children through His Church.

So, the leaders of the Church have always known that the drive for learning among our people must have a powerful spiritual component. That spiritual element, when it is effective, refines and uplifts the aims of our total education.


Seek Learning to Serve God

The thirst for education that comes with the change the gospel brings can be a blessing or a curse, depending on our motives. If we continue to seek learning to serve God and His children better, it is a blessing of great worth. If we begin to seek learning to exalt ourselves alone, it leads to selfishness and pride, which will take us away from eternal life.

That is one of the reasons we should always put spiritual learning first. And that is why the Church has placed institutes of religion across the earth wherever young members are gathered in sufficient numbers. Their spiritual education in the institute will shape the purpose and speed the process of their secular learning.

Listen to the words of the Lord as recorded by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants. They constitute His call for education and establish the purpose and process of our learning.

"Also, I give unto you a commandment that ye shall continue in prayer and fasting from this time forth.

"And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.

"Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;

"Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—

"That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you" (D&C 88:76–80).

Let’s start with the purpose. The Lord and His Church have always encouraged education to increase our ability to serve Him and our Heavenly Father’s children. For each of us, whatever our talents, He has service for us to give. And to do it well always involves learning, not once or for a limited time, but continually.

In that scripture the Master is clear about the process. By prayer, fasting, and hard work, with a motive to serve Him, we can expect His grace to attend us. I can assure you from my own experience, that does not mean we will always be on the high end of the grading curve. It means that we will learn more rapidly and grow in skill beyond what we could do only with our unaided natural abilities. I know that from my own experience, as many of you do and as all of you can.

That leads to some clear answers to the question of what all this means for us and what, therefore, we should do.


Spiritual Learning Gives Secular Learning Purpose

It is clear that our first priority should go to spiritual learning. Reading the scriptures would come for us before reading history books. Prayer would come before memorizing those Spanish verbs. A temple recommend would be worth more to us than standing first in our graduating class. But it is also clear that spiritual learning would not replace our drive for secular learning.

The Lord clearly values what you will find in that history book and in a text on political theory. Remember His words. He wants you to know "things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations" (D&C 88:79). And He favors not only Spanish verbs but the study of geography and demography. You remember that His educational charter requires that we have "a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms" (v. 79). There is also an endorsement for questions we study in the sciences.

It is clear that putting spiritual learning first does not relieve us from learning secular things. On the contrary, it gives our secular learning purpose and motivates us to work harder at it. If we will keep spiritual learning in its proper place, we will have to make some hard choices of how we use our time. We generally know when papers will be due, when tests must be taken, when projects must be completed. And we know when the Sabbath will come. We know when the institute class will be held. We know when the prayers at the beginning of a day and those at the end should come. We know about how long it takes in reading the scriptures before we begin to feel the Holy Spirit. We know about how many hours it takes to prepare and to perform our service in the Church.

When we see life as it really is, we plan for a time and a place for all of those things. There will come crises when there does not seem to be enough time. There will be many instances when one thing crowds out another. But there should never be a conscious choice to let the spiritual become secondary as a pattern in our lives. Never. That will lead to tragedy. The tragedy may not be obvious at first, nor may it ever be clear in mortal life. But remember, you are interested in education not for life, but for eternal life. When you see that reality clearly with spiritual sight, you will put spiritual learning first and yet not slight the secular learning. In fact, you will work harder at your secular learning than you would without that spiritual vision.


God Knows What We Need to Know

Part of the tragedy that you must avoid is to discover too late that you missed an opportunity to prepare for a future only God could see for you. The chance to learn another language is for me a painful example. My father was born in Mexico. He grew up speaking Spanish as his first language. I lived in his home for more than twenty years. I, sadly, never asked him to teach me a word of Spanish. Now I am the first contact in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles for the Church in Mexico, in Central America, and in Colombia, Venezuela, and Ecuador. It was no accident that I was born into a home with a Spanish-speaking father.

But there was another opportunity. My father was a great teacher. He was a chemist. He even kept a blackboard in our basement for his children. He was eager to teach me mathematics. He spent hours trying to help me solve problems for my physics classes. He pled with me to think more often about those things that then seemed so uninteresting and so unimportant. Years later I was called by the Lord to the Presiding Bishopric of the Church and given responsibilities for computing and communications systems. What a blessing I might have had by taking the counsel I give you now.

Your life is carefully watched over, as was mine. The Lord knows both what He will need you to do and what you will need to know. He is kind and He is all-knowing. So, you can with confidence expect that He has prepared opportunities for you to learn in preparation for the service you will give. You will not recognize those opportunities perfectly, as I did not. But when you put the spiritual things first in your life, you will be blessed to feel directed toward certain learning and you will be motivated to work harder. You will recognize later that your power to serve was increased, and you will be grateful.

Your service may not be in what the world would recognize as a lofty calling. When the real value of service becomes clear in the judgment of God, some people who worked in quiet anonymity will be the real heroes. Many of them, perhaps most of them, will be the underpaid and under-recognized people who nurtured others. I never visit an elementary school and watch the teachers without thinking about that future day when the rewards will be eternal. I never visit a hospital and watch those who nurse and those who clean without thinking of that. And I never visit a workplace where someone serves me and others well, earning wages barely enough to provide the necessities for a family, without thinking of the future. And I never see a mother juggling three little children who are crying while she is smiling, as she shepherds them gently, without seeing in my mind’s eye that day of honor in the presence of the only Judge whose praise will finally matter.


Learning Should Never Stop

No service that matters can be given over a lifetime by those who stop learning. A great teacher is always studying. A nurse never stops facing the challenge of dealing with something new, be it equipment or procedure. And the workplace in every industry is changing so rapidly that what we know today will not be enough for tomorrow.

Our education must never stop. If it ends at the door of the classroom on graduation day, we will fail. And since what we will need to know is hard to discern, we need the help of heaven to know which of the myriad of things we could study we would most wisely learn. It also means that we cannot waste time entertaining ourselves when we have the chance to read or to listen to whatever will help us learn what is true and useful. Insatiable curiosity will be our hallmark.

For many of us, the feeling bears down on us that we must choose between spiritual and secular learning. That is a false conflict for most of us, particularly for the young. Before we have families there is leisure time in even what is our busiest day. Too often we use many hours for fun and pleasure, clothed in the euphemism "I’m recharging my batteries." Those hours could be spent reading and studying to gain knowledge, and skills, and culture.

For instance, we too often fail to take advantage of the moments we spend waiting. Think of the last time that you sat in a barber shop or a beauty salon or the waiting room of a doctor’s office. It is so easy to spend time thumbing through any magazine that is stacked on a table there. In fact, if you think about it, you will remember how you wondered where they get those old, out-of-date magazines. There is much valuable reading you could do if you took a book with you to fill those islands of time.

From at least the time man was created, there was the written word. The scriptures tell us that from what they teach about Adam and Eve. They were conscious of the need to develop the mind and the power of reading and writing. In the book of Moses we read, "And by them their children were taught to read and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled" (Moses 6:6).

It takes neither modern technology nor much money to seize the opportunity to learn in the moments we now waste. You could just have a book and paper and pencil with you. That will be enough. But you need determination to capture the leisure moments you now waste."

Let's recap, shall we?

1. The drive to learn springs from true conversion.

2. The drive to greater usefulness through education is the natural fruit of living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

3. Those who have planted the good word of God and have served faithfully invariably have awakened in them a great desire for self-improvement. And with that comes a desire to learn more and to gain greater skills.

4. It is that the purpose of God’s creations and of His giving us life is to allow us to have the learning experience necessary for us to come back to Him, to live with Him, in eternal life.

5. The Lord and His Church have always encouraged education to increase our ability to serve Him and our Heavenly Father’s children. For each of us, whatever our talents, He has service for us to give. And to do it well always involves learning, not once or for a limited time, but continually.

6.Learning Should Never Stop

No service that matters can be given over a lifetime by those who stop learning. A great teacher is always studying. A nurse never stops facing the challenge of dealing with something new, be it equipment or procedure. And the workplace in every industry is changing so rapidly that what we know today will not be enough for tomorrow.

Our education must never stop. If it ends at the door of the classroom on graduation day, we will fail.

This life is our mortal school. But since the LDS Church teaches that learning should never stop...it stands to reason that our learning process will continue throughout the eternities.

Our spiritual and eternal potentials are limitless.

Jaye wrote:
Dubbs wrote:
bddefense wrote:
Jaye wrote:
... And even continuous and eternal progression in our education?

Humm, I've never heard of "eternal progression in our education"... I've heard of "eternal progression"... but not applied to education and learning.

It would be better called "progression to Godhood" - and once you're at Godhood, there is no longer progression in knowledge or learning new truths - as a God is all knowing.. and has nothing more to learn.

If God could continue to learn eternally, well, then God would be eternally ignorant - not "all knowing". That's not what I learned about God when I attended the LDS church.

Where did you come up with "eternal progression in our education"? Seems to me you're misapplying the concept towards "always learning" which is not what it's about... correct?

Good point, and show's Jaye's LDS beliefs are just a shade off.

Really? Better reassess your beliefs.

"Elder Henry B. Eyring
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

CES Fireside for Young Adults
6 May 2001

Conversion Brings a Drive to Learn

From the restoration of the Church of Jesus Christ in the time of Joseph Smith to our own days, you can see the evidence of that drive to learn springing from true conversion. Joseph Smith, as a very young man, translated the Book of Mormon from plates inscribed with a language no one on earth understood. He did it by a divine gift of revelation from God. But he later hired a tutor to teach him and other leaders of the Church ancient languages. Joseph Smith had essentially no formal schooling, yet the effect of the gospel of Jesus Christ on him was to make him want to learn more so that he could be more useful to God and to God’s children.

When the Latter-day Saints were driven from Missouri by mobs, they built a city on the banks of the Mississippi River. They named it Nauvoo. In their poverty and on the western edges of the country they formed a university.

"In 1840, Joseph Smith sought the incorporation of the City of Nauvoo, Illinois, and along with it authority to establish a university. The Nauvoo charter included authority to ‘establish and organize an institution of learning within the limits of the city, for the teaching of the arts, sciences and learned professions, to be called the "University of the City of Nauvoo"’ (quoted in Salisbury, p. 269).

"The first academic year in Nauvoo was that of 1841–42. The university probably was among the first municipal universities in the United States (Rich, p. 10). . . . The curriculum included languages (German, French, Latin, Greek, and Hebrew), mathematics, chemistry and geology, literature, and history. . . . ‘The faculty represented considerable scholarship [compared with what you would expect to find in a frontier city in those early days]’ (Bennion, p. 25).

" . . . The charter of the University of the City of Nauvoo served as the foundation for the University of Deseret (now the University of Utah), established by Brigham Young in Salt Lake City in 1850. ‘Education,’ he once told that school’s Board of Regents, ‘is the power to think clearly, the power to act well in the world’s work, and the power to appreciate life’ (Bennion, p. 115). He advised: ‘A good school teacher is one of the most essential members in society’ (JD 10:225)" (in Daniel H. Ludlow, ed., Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 5 vols. [1992], 2:442–43).

When the Saints in Utah were still struggling to produce enough food to live, they started schools. They felt driven to lift their children toward light and to greater usefulness by education. That drive is more than a cultural tradition passed on through the generations. It is the natural fruit of living the gospel of Jesus Christ. You see it today across the world in our missionaries coming home from their brief service in the field. More than a thousand young Mexicans come home from the mission field every year. More than a thousand Brazilians return to their homes each year from missionary service. Those who have planted the good word of God and have served faithfully invariably have awakened in them a great desire for self-improvement. And with that comes a desire to learn more and to gain greater skills.

Those are the desires that drew Latter-day Saint young people to the University of Idaho. That is the desire that will draw young people to education and training of all kinds in all the nations where the gospel works in the hearts of members of all ages.

But that explains only why there is such a growth in the number of members, old and young, who seek more education and more training. The reason for the growth in institutes of religion lies in the leaders of the Church recognizing another simple truth. It is that the purpose of God’s creations and of His giving us life is to allow us to have the learning experience necessary for us to come back to Him, to live with Him, in eternal life. That is only possible if we have our natures changed through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, true repentance, and making and keeping the covenants He offers all of His Father’s children through His Church.

So, the leaders of the Church have always known that the drive for learning among our people must have a powerful spiritual component. That spiritual element, when it is effective, refines and uplifts the aims of our total education.


Seek Learning to Serve God

The thirst for education that comes with the change the gospel brings can be a blessing or a curse, depending on our motives. If we continue to seek learning to serve God and His children better, it is a blessing of great worth. If we begin to seek learning to exalt ourselves alone, it leads to selfishness and pride, which will take us away from eternal life.

That is one of the reasons we should always put spiritual learning first. And that is why the Church has placed institutes of religion across the earth wherever young members are gathered in sufficient numbers. Their spiritual education in the institute will shape the purpose and speed the process of their secular learning.

Listen to the words of the Lord as recorded by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants. They constitute His call for education and establish the purpose and process of our learning.

"Also, I give unto you a commandment that ye shall continue in prayer and fasting from this time forth.

"And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom.

"Teach ye diligently and my grace shall attend you, that you may be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient for you to understand;

"Of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations, and the judgments which are on the land; and a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms—

"That ye may be prepared in all things when I shall send you again to magnify the calling whereunto I have called you, and the mission with which I have commissioned you" (D&C 88:76–80).

Let’s start with the purpose. The Lord and His Church have always encouraged education to increase our ability to serve Him and our Heavenly Father’s children. For each of us, whatever our talents, He has service for us to give. And to do it well always involves learning, not once or for a limited time, but continually.

In that scripture the Master is clear about the process. By prayer, fasting, and hard work, with a motive to serve Him, we can expect His grace to attend us. I can assure you from my own experience, that does not mean we will always be on the high end of the grading curve. It means that we will learn more rapidly and grow in skill beyond what we could do only with our unaided natural abilities. I know that from my own experience, as many of you do and as all of you can.

That leads to some clear answers to the question of what all this means for us and what, therefore, we should do.


Spiritual Learning Gives Secular Learning Purpose

It is clear that our first priority should go to spiritual learning. Reading the scriptures would come for us before reading history books. Prayer would come before memorizing those Spanish verbs. A temple recommend would be worth more to us than standing first in our graduating class. But it is also clear that spiritual learning would not replace our drive for secular learning.

The Lord clearly values what you will find in that history book and in a text on political theory. Remember His words. He wants you to know "things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass; things which are at home, things which are abroad; the wars and the perplexities of the nations" (D&C 88:79). And He favors not only Spanish verbs but the study of geography and demography. You remember that His educational charter requires that we have "a knowledge also of countries and of kingdoms" (v. 79). There is also an endorsement for questions we study in the sciences.

It is clear that putting spiritual learning first does not relieve us from learning secular things. On the contrary, it gives our secular learning purpose and motivates us to work harder at it. If we will keep spiritual learning in its proper place, we will have to make some hard choices of how we use our time. We generally know when papers will be due, when tests must be taken, when projects must be completed. And we know when the Sabbath will come. We know when the institute class will be held. We know when the prayers at the beginning of a day and those at the end should come. We know about how long it takes in reading the scriptures before we begin to feel the Holy Spirit. We know about how many hours it takes to prepare and to perform our service in the Church.

When we see life as it really is, we plan for a time and a place for all of those things. There will come crises when there does not seem to be enough time. There will be many instances when one thing crowds out another. But there should never be a conscious choice to let the spiritual become secondary as a pattern in our lives. Never. That will lead to tragedy. The tragedy may not be obvious at first, nor may it ever be clear in mortal life. But remember, you are interested in education not for life, but for eternal life. When you see that reality clearly with spiritual sight, you will put spiritual learning first and yet not slight the secular learning. In fact, you will work harder at your secular learning than you would without that spiritual vision.


God Knows What We Need to Know

Part of the tragedy that you must avoid is to discover too late that you missed an opportunity to prepare for a future only God could see for you. The chance to learn another language is for me a painful example. My father was born in Mexico. He grew up speaking Spanish as his first language. I lived in his home for more than twenty years. I, sadly, never asked him to teach me a word of Spanish. Now I am the first contact in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles for the Church in Mexico, in Central America, and in Colombia, Venezuela, and Ecuador. It was no accident that I was born into a home with a Spanish-speaking father.

But there was another opportunity. My father was a great teacher. He was a chemist. He even kept a blackboard in our basement for his children. He was eager to teach me mathematics. He spent hours trying to help me solve problems for my physics classes. He pled with me to think more often about those things that then seemed so uninteresting and so unimportant. Years later I was called by the Lord to the Presiding Bishopric of the Church and given responsibilities for computing and communications systems. What a blessing I might have had by taking the counsel I give you now.

Your life is carefully watched over, as was mine. The Lord knows both what He will need you to do and what you will need to know. He is kind and He is all-knowing. So, you can with confidence expect that He has prepared opportunities for you to learn in preparation for the service you will give. You will not recognize those opportunities perfectly, as I did not. But when you put the spiritual things first in your life, you will be blessed to feel directed toward certain learning and you will be motivated to work harder. You will recognize later that your power to serve was increased, and you will be grateful.

Your service may not be in what the world would recognize as a lofty calling. When the real value of service becomes clear in the judgment of God, some people who worked in quiet anonymity will be the real heroes. Many of them, perhaps most of them, will be the underpaid and under-recognized people who nurtured others. I never visit an elementary school and watch the teachers without thinking about that future day when the rewards will be eternal. I never visit a hospital and watch those who nurse and those who clean without thinking of that. And I never visit a workplace where someone serves me and others well, earning wages barely enough to provide the necessities for a family, without thinking of the future. And I never see a mother juggling three little children who are crying while she is smiling, as she shepherds them gently, without seeing in my mind’s eye that day of honor in the presence of the only Judge whose praise will finally matter.


Learning Should Never Stop

No service that matters can be given over a lifetime by those who stop learning. A great teacher is always studying. A nurse never stops facing the challenge of dealing with something new, be it equipment or procedure. And the workplace in every industry is changing so rapidly that what we know today will not be enough for tomorrow.

Our education must never stop. If it ends at the door of the classroom on graduation day, we will fail. And since what we will need to know is hard to discern, we need the help of heaven to know which of the myriad of things we could study we would most wisely learn. It also means that we cannot waste time entertaining ourselves when we have the chance to read or to listen to whatever will help us learn what is true and useful. Insatiable curiosity will be our hallmark.

For many of us, the feeling bears down on us that we must choose between spiritual and secular learning. That is a false conflict for most of us, particularly for the young. Before we have families there is leisure time in even what is our busiest day. Too often we use many hours for fun and pleasure, clothed in the euphemism "I’m recharging my batteries." Those hours could be spent reading and studying to gain knowledge, and skills, and culture.

For instance, we too often fail to take advantage of the moments we spend waiting. Think of the last time that you sat in a barber shop or a beauty salon or the waiting room of a doctor’s office. It is so easy to spend time thumbing through any magazine that is stacked on a table there. In fact, if you think about it, you will remember how you wondered where they get those old, out-of-date magazines. There is much valuable reading you could do if you took a book with you to fill those islands of time.

From at least the time man was created, there was the written word. The scriptures tell us that from what they teach about Adam and Eve. They were conscious of the need to develop the mind and the power of reading and writing. In the book of Moses we read, "And by them their children were taught to read and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled" (Moses 6:6).

It takes neither modern technology nor much money to seize the opportunity to learn in the moments we now waste. You could just have a book and paper and pencil with you. That will be enough. But you need determination to capture the leisure moments you now waste."

Let's recap, shall we?

1. The drive to learn springs from true conversion.

2. The drive to greater usefulness through education is the natural fruit of living the gospel of Jesus Christ.

3. Those who have planted the good word of God and have served faithfully invariably have awakened in them a great desire for self-improvement. And with that comes a desire to learn more and to gain greater skills.

4. It is that the purpose of God’s creations and of His giving us life is to allow us to have the learning experience necessary for us to come back to Him, to live with Him, in eternal life.

5. The Lord and His Church have always encouraged education to increase our ability to serve Him and our Heavenly Father’s children. For each of us, whatever our talents, He has service for us to give. And to do it well always involves learning, not once or for a limited time, but continually.

6.Learning Should Never Stop

No service that matters can be given over a lifetime by those who stop learning. A great teacher is always studying. A nurse never stops facing the challenge of dealing with something new, be it equipment or procedure. And the workplace in every industry is changing so rapidly that what we know today will not be enough for tomorrow.

Our education must never stop. If it ends at the door of the classroom on graduation day, we will fail.

This life is our mortal school. But since the LDS Church teaches that learning should never stop...it stands to reason that our learning process will continue throughout the eternities.

Our spiritual and eternal potentials are limitless.
Dubs forever makes himself look the fool in his insane quest to make you the "bad guy".