Education problems in Utah are the same as they have been for decades, and vouchers are a way to break the pattern, argued state lawmakers at a Provo town hall meeting Thursday.

"Change the names and change the dates, and you'll find that the same arguments that were being made 30 years ago are being made today," said Sen. Curt Bramble, R-Provo, who sponsored HB 148. "We're looking to change the paradigm."

Bramble, Sen. Margaret Dayton, R-Orem, and representatives Chris Herrod, Stephen Clark and Becky Lockhart, all R-Provo, gathered in Provo's City Council chambers before a capacity crowd to defend the voucher bill.

Lockhart said the turnout at the meeting was the best she's seen in a series of similar meetings throughout the county.

"It was important for us that our constituents know why we voted for this bill," Lockhart said.

All of the lawmakers present supported the bill, and spent the majority of the meeting answering questions.

One issue that has crept up continually in voucher debates is per-pupil funding. One man questioned where the extra money would go for a child that leaves the public school system.

Lockhart emphasized the point that all income tax money goes into the public schools by law. The voucher money, however, comes from the general fund.

"You will never find income tax, education money, spent on anything else," she said.

When a child takes advantage of the voucher program, the rest of the money stays in the public school.

Tom Gregory, a board member on the Utah State Board of Education, said he does not publicly support or denounce vouchers, but he feels inaccurate information is being publicized by both sides.

"I think [voting on the bill] is a personal decision," he said. "I'm really frustrated by both sides."

Both sides have said that per-pupil funding in public schools is about $7,500. The dispute is where that money goes when a child goes to private school.

Gregory said while the estimated cost for public schools was $7,500, the state paid approximately $3,400 in 2006.

"The state does not pay $7,500," he said.

Another important funding aspect is how much it costs to attend a private school in Utah. Bramble said once boarding schools have been removed from calculations, the average cost statewide is only $4,000.

However, Lisa Johnson, of Utahns for Public Schools, contradicted the statistic in a phone interview.

"The maximum voucher is only $3,000," she said. "But the average tuition prices for private schools in Utah is $8,000."

Gregory said the numbers provide an inaccurate picture because they do not show the price increase for grade levels. While lower grades have a cheaper average, the average tuition at the high school level is approximately $8,000, he said.

School teachers questioned whether the playing field would be uneven with vouchers and if private school teachers would lack necessary certification. They also asked if children could be turned away for behavior or bad grades.

"Private schools have the same right as public schools in terms of expulsion," said Lockhart.

Dayton said the legislators promote vouchers because they can benefit children, and they still support the public school system.

"The only reason there is such an intense discussion about this voucher, I'm convinced, is because we care," she said.

The meeting was sponsored by the Informed Voter Project, a political issues committee headed by Bramble, Dayton and Jeffrey Hartley, as well as representatives Greg Hughes, R-Draper, John Valentine, R-Orem, and Greg Curtis, R-Sandy.

Hartley, who is the former executive director of the Republican party, is the director and treasurer of the group. The PICs expenditure and contribution report shows it has received $200,000 in donations, all from Patrick Byrne, who supported the voucher bill in a debate at Utah Valley State College earlier in October.