Supporters of a legislative ethics initiative say it will hold state lawmakers accountable, but opponents say the initiative is overkill and sets up a de facto fourth branch of government that is not accountable to courts.

The initiative, the subject of public hearings across the state, would create a five-member commission that would hear ethics complaints against state legislators and recommend action to the state Legislature. Twenty candidates for the commission would be chosen by leadership from both parties in both state houses by unanimous vote, then five of those names would be chosen out of a hat. If the leadership couldn't agree on the pool of 20, then the five original signatories of the initiative would round out the pool of 20. The commission would have an executive director, who would be an attorney, and would be able to hire other staff members whose salaries would be covered by the state.

The initiative also lays out a code of conduct for legislators, which includes not accepting campaign donations from corporations. A corporation is defined as any private business or form of private business organization, whether for profit or not.

The group pushing the initiative, Utahns for Ethical Government, held a hearing in Provo on Wednesday night, which was attended by about 200 people. While there were people at the hearing on both sides of the issue, there was consensus that pushing legislators to a higher ethical standard was a good idea.

Attendees asked about part of the bill that says a legislator facing an ethics complaint would be able to hire any attorney at state expense. Janet Jenson, an attorney and representative of the initiative group, said "even though they (legislators) have no right to due process, we have bent over backward to give them due process" under the proposal. Others asked if attorneys fees would be an anti-motive for bringing a complaint, because the person bringing the complaint would have to pay their own fees.

Attendees also asked about part of the bill that says the commission's decisions would not be subject to judicial or agency review. Others asked questions about the process of choosing the five commissioners and the possibility of tying legislators up in frivolous complaints.

Representatives of the initiative group, Jenson and Karl Snow, a former state legislator, said there would be a screening process so that frivolous complaints wouldn't be heard. However, accused legislators wouldn't be part of that vetting process.

In response to a comment that the initiative goes too far, Jenson said "it's not overkill; it's really pretty mild as ethics go." She did say that she doesn't know of any states that have a similar commission and ethics code.

Jenson also said the initiative is nothing different from what goes on in the business world every day.

Ned Hill, a Brigham Young University professor of finance and emcee at the event, said "we're asking legislators to live the standards that most boards of directors must live now." The political process should work the same as business, he added.

Sen. John Valentine, R-Orem, didn't feel like the initiative was just an effort to hold legislators to business standards. He said it felt more like an attack.

"I consider this a draft. The intentions are good but the language" is a problem, said a BYU graduate student in the audience. "Is there another way to address these issues without forming this commission?"

More public hearings are scheduled in the next week. Tonight at 7, initiative supporters will give a presentation and answer questions at the Grand County Council Chambers, 125 E. Center St. in Moab; and Tuesday at 7 p.m. at the Mound Fort Middle School, 1400 Mound Fort Drive in Ogden.

To read the initiative, go to www.utahethics.org.

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